SMN Feedback after Savage Launch/Live Letter for 5.08/5.1

[CecMiller]

What do I like about the job? Plenty!

Summoner has always been my favourite job in the FF universe. It IS the most important job in FF history (every single game has summons). I've always felt the WOL should be a summoner lore wise due to the strong relation between summons and summoning and the story in general. Outside of this and specifically the job:

I love the continued focus on Demi Summons. I hope for more focus on the future on this.

I love that phoenix has unique visual animations and more moves than just a "recoloured" akhmorn. I want bahamut to have the same aka different moves that potentially alters how your abilities work (Bahamut should at least have Flare Breath!)

I love pet jobs and dots in general due to my warlock days from world of warcraft. I've loved it since I first switched from BLM to it for my raid group progression and love it still. However, with the way its poorly designed in some respects and very clunky to use with regards to certain aspects, it's difficult to like it as much as I did in 4.1.

I love that it builds up to its "burst" sequence though I do not like, at all, how rigid it is now when compared to before.

I just like the general playstyle of managing dots and performing burst inside burst windows and I previously loved smart execution of trances and demi summons with respect to mechanics which required movement or adds were spawning.

I'm hoping for strong pet/egi abilities down the line which are far more meaningful than these current "Egi Assaults". They feel really weak potency wise and I really want my egi's moves to be more meaningful and potent in general even at the cost of GCD/Ruin damage. The current Egi Assaults also increase the CPM of the class which is incredibly annoying after long sessions of raiding.

I LOVED the old Aetherflow cycle mechanic in 4.1 and still do. It was by far and away my most favourite and played job in this game. In fact, I have multiple alts all 80 SMN. I also loved doing absolutely ludicrous AOE damage in Stormblood and hope that with the improved playability of the job in 5.08/5.1 that it can return to its ways of disgusting AOE damage.

I love the class in general and its why I'm so passionate about my feedback.

[Exodus-E]

Consolidate Egi Assaults:

A common complaint of summoner is that it feels to busy. This is the first area I would look in reducing “busyness”. Consider consolidating Egi assaults so that they generate the same Ruin 4 stacks per minute whilst reducing overall button presses. If the cooldown is increased, it also improves the feel of the abilities as they would naturally have to be more potent which is a personal preference of mine – I want Egi abilities to feel more powerful and this would be a step in that direction.

Suggestion:

1. Egi Assault 1 and 2 now have a cooldown of 60s. (Optionally no longer has 2 charges)
2. Double their current potency.
3. Each Egi Assault generates 2 Ruin 4 Stacks.

This reduces the OGCD count by 2 per minute (2 down from 4 per minute). It does introduce possible error by the player in using an Egi Assault whilst they have 3 stacks (3 + 2 = 5) when their maximum is 4 stacks, but I think this is acceptable. Further, this is also a nerf to Titan Egi’s defensive shield but I think this is also acceptable or optionally, the % could be change to compensate for this. There are other possible solutions such as consolidating them even further to simply “Egi Assault” so that it would be simply 1 OGCD instead of 4 per minute etc.

Instant Ruin 4 Generation via Egi Assaults:

Consider making them generate Ruin 4 stacks instantly on button press as opposed to having the animation play as a requirement for it. This would result in more responsiveness from pets via having Ruin 4 instantly available and no opportunity to ghost the Ruin 4 generation part of the ability. Titan Egi should also generate Ruin 4 stacks from his shield ability “Earthen Armour”.

I feel like an "easier" solution would be to simply remove the whole "Egi Assault proc'ing Ruin IV" thing.
Otherwise, we'd get "unfavorable" scenarios like you (suddenly) needing Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor, yet couldn't because all Egi Assaults were used for Ifrit-Egi/Garuda-Egi earlier.

Maybe if each pet had its own independent Egi Assault CDs to compensate...

[Vitreus]

I feel like an "easier" solution would be to simply remove the whole "Egi Assault proc'ing Ruin IV" thing.

The problem then is that the Egi's are back to autonomous pets that aren't involved in our mechanics at all. If Egi assault was improved I think the mechanic interaction would be fine.

Otherwise, we'd get "unfavorable" scenarios like you (suddenly) needing Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor, yet couldn't because all Egi Assaults were used for Ifrit-Egi/Garuda-Egi earlier.

Maybe if each pet had its own independent Egi Assault CDs to compensate...

That's interesting because it could lead to summoners having to swap between summoned egi's in order to maximize dps. But at the same time it would make the job even busier which is the last thing we need at the moment.

[Exodus-E]

The problem then is that the Egi's are back to autonomous pets that aren't involved in our mechanics at all. If Egi assault was improved I think the mechanic interaction would be fine.

Not entirely autonomous, though.
Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor and Garuda-Egi's Slipstream were a step in the right direction in making them both, unique and useful depending on the situation.

That's interesting because it could lead to summoners having to swap between summoned egi's in order to maximize dps. But at the same time it would make the job even busier which is the last thing we need at the moment.

With Patch 5.05's adjustments, I think that's precisely what the developers wanted us to do (ie. swapping pets mid-fight depending on the situation).
But again, I feel like tying Ruin IV procs' into their actions kind of worked against that...

[CecMiller]

Not entirely autonomous, though.
Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor and Garuda-Egi's Slipstream were a step in the right direction in making them both, unique and useful depending on the situation.


With Patch 5.05's adjustments, I think that's precisely what the developers wanted us to do (ie. swapping pets mid-fight depending on the situation).
But again, I feel like tying Ruin IV procs' into their actions kind of worked against that...

I do not believe that the intended mechanic behind pets is to "swap" them. Garuda is primarily AOE and Ifrit single target. Further titan is a dps loss when compared to ifrit too. I think they just made it so that switching between one and another would be less of a dps loss as opposed to the intended way to use pets. This is because you can quick shield youself with a titan egi shield and then switch back if needed. Though, in practice, I never did this during savage and I'm unsure how this will impact things going forward. Its entirely possible that switching to garuda for enkindle and switching back is now a gain but using a move like slip stream and switching back will never be a gain due to how it disappears when you switch pets.

If pet swapping was the intended function, I think they need to show that in the individual egi actions as they are not so different outside of Titan Egi. Enkindle is the odd one out where Garuda's is the strongest for both single target and AOE which I dont think should be the case. Why in the world would you ever use Titan and Ifrit Egi Enkindles then when garuda's is the most potent in all scenarios? Its why I mention Enkindles in my post

[Exodus-E]

I do not believe that the intended mechanic behind pets is to "swap" them. Garuda is primarily AOE and Ifrit single target. Further titan is a dps loss when compared to ifrit too. I think they just made it so that switching between one and another would be less of a dps loss as opposed to the intended way to use pets. This is because you can quick shield youself with a titan egi shield and then switch back if needed. Though, in practice, I never did this during savage and I'm unsure how this will impact things going forward. Its entirely possible that switching to garuda for enkindle and switching back is now a gain but using a move like slip stream and switching back will never be a gain due to how it disappears when you switch pets.

Why else would they:

A) further "solidify" their roles (ie. Ifrit-Egi for single targets and Garuda-Egi for groups)?
B) completely eliminate their cast times for summoning them?
C) reduce their recast timers between pets from 10s -> 3s (as of Patch 5.05)?

Also, even if it's a DPS loss, sometimes you will end up in situations where you'll need further "survivability" instead (ie. swapping to Titan-Egi for its Earthen Armor).
It's all about their "situational" roles.

Now, this wouldn't be an issue at all if Summon II/Topaz Carbuncle/Titan-Egi was outright removed, but since they're so dead-set on us having 3 pets with different roles/functions (with one of them being "Support")...

If pet swapping was the intended function, I think they need to show that in the individual egi actions as they are not so different outside of Titan Egi. Enkindle is the odd one out where Garuda's is the strongest for both single target and AOE which I dont think should be the case. Why in the world would you ever use Titan and Ifrit Egi Enkindles then when garuda's is the most potent in all scenarios? Its why I mention Enkindles in my post

I agree that them still having different Enkindle potencies/effects is a weird oversight/afterthought.

Potency-wise, though:
A) Aerial Blast has 350 potency
B) Inferno has 200 potency + applies a DoT (20 potency for 15s). 200 + 20 x 5 = 300 potency (total)

Combined with their auto-attacks (Wind Blade's 40 vs. Burning Strike's 80), I'd say Ifrit-Egi is still better for single-targets.
As in, not swapping them just for their individual Enkindles.

[Dyvid]

Why else would they:
A) completely eliminate their cast times for summoning them?
B) reduce their recast timers between pets from 10s -> 3s (as of Patch 5.05)?

Also, even if it's a DPS loss, sometimes you will end up in situations where you'll need further "survivability" instead (ie. swapping to Titan-Egi for its Earthen Armor).
It's all about their "situational" roles.


I agree that them still having different Enkindle potencies/effects is a weird oversight/afterthought.

Potency-wise, though:
A) Aerial Blast has 350 potency
B) Inferno has 200 potency + applies a DoT (20 potency for 15s). 200 + 20 x 5 = 300 potency (total).

Combined with their auto-attacks (Wind Blade's 40 vs. Burning Strike's 80), I'd say Ifrit-Egi is still better for single-targets.
As in, not swapping just for their individual Enkindles.

Unfortunately the job is so busy as it is, pet swapping would make it even worse. I've tried to swap garuda and ifrit for enkindle it just felt awful. Now swapping Titan for shield sin't bad if you have a EA1 ready to use.

[CecMiller]

Why else would they:


Potency-wise, though:
A) Aerial Blast has 350 potency
B) Inferno has 200 potency + applies a DoT (20 potency for 15s). 200 + 20 x 5 = 300 potency (total)

Combined with their auto-attacks (Wind Blade's 40 vs. Burning Strike's 80), I'd say Ifrit-Egi is still better for single-targets.
As in, not swapping them just for their individual Enkindles.

This is incorrect as you do not understand what pet potency is.

Garuda and ifrit/Titan have different pet potencies. You multiple Garuda by 0.8 to get its real value and ifrits by 0.48. Thus, 350 garuda = 280 player potency and 300 Ifrit is 144 player potency. It is a much starker difference. The same is true for their auto attacks.

40*0.8 = 32 player potency vs. 80*0.48 = 38.4 player potency. Hencer per auto the difference is 38.4/32 = 1.2. Ifrit deals exactly 1.2x the auto of garuda.

As for your earlier comment, I think I've mentioned why they would do so. If they were intent on us swapping mid battle, they would give us more reason to do so and make it more obvious to do so. Currently, the only reason you swap is for adds (in which case you swap to garuda) or for potential greater enkindle potency via garuda. That is the only reason to do so.