Issue with TBN

[Nedkel]

Rubbish, it is a DPS loss. You're saving 3k MP for a reduce tank buster when the DPS windows are up, that is a loss. Unless you work with your team knowing when and not when to. Edge values way more over TBN when your DPS are using utility cool downs.

All TBN is good for is blocking Busters, auto attacks take too long or don't break in time the further we go with our Ilvls. HOS can fuel out consistently for a short CD, reduce a buster and reduce an auto attacks, plus AOEs. Or other words rotate around with no drawbacks, it isn't maths, it's common sense.
Always max DPS over the "reduce buster damage", not talking about casual easy content. Rampart/Sentinel are always back for the next busters, with the Invulnerable included. Only E4S really puts the threat at the moment to use TBN, other than that with 470 there's no need for it.

In the end Pld/Gnb will be top notch combo for doing larger DPS pools.

Your TBN even if you wont break it will still contribute to the rDPS.
Healer have more time, because you dont take damage and thanks to that he doesnt have to heal you, so he could throw a damage spell in.
TBN is a far bigger dps gain than simply using MP for damaging oGCD, if it breaks not only you could do damage but your healer as well.

Ask anyone who plays a healer, who they like to heal, which tank. DRK is nicest job to heal if played by competitve tank.

And HoS is not in any way "superior", not even in the slightest.

[DJMau]

But you dont, really. You CAN use it every 15s The only time you can't is if you're out of MP.

Technically true. But you'll screw yourself over eventually if you do. Nothing worse than seeing that big hit coming and TBN is on cooldown.

[RokkuEkkusu]

I'm fine with the way TBN functions as DRK.

[kazzel120]

I love the way TBN works and wouldnt want them to change it. Sure the others (I'll call it active mitigation) CDs only benefit, but DRK benefits so much more when used correctly. It's a wonderful skill that doesnt involve mindlessly using it, but instead rewards proper usage. If you arent taking enough dmg to warrant it, you have other CDs. Or maybe, if you are taking such low dmg.. you dont need a CD?

Yay someone who gets it. If its not worth using TBN for its not worth using any CD period its that simple thank you for knowing why TBN is so great. And well how the other CD dont even come close to the mitigation TBN has.

[kazzel120]

But you dont, really. You CAN use it every 15s The only time you can't is if you're out of MP.

And if your using it every time it comes back on anything but large trash groups you're using it wrong. EoS or FoS always unless you need a TBN and any good drk knows when a tank buster is coming and has enough MP to TBN and soak that lovely over 30k damage.

[Shurrikhan]

TBN's break mechanic is what tries to hold you to the timing of HoS, Shelltron, and Raw Intuition. Being able to occasionally have double the regular frequency, slipping it into (mini)-busters between those mitigated by the other on-demand miti skills, is plenty worth that risk for now. You have that added flexibility, but only at risk.

My real concern is what HP scaling will eventually do to it in overgeared content... I'd almost rather it be reduced to 20% HP so that it can more reliably be free in dungeons, because already at no-CD, no slows, and no Holy in mass-pulls I'm sometimes getting too many lucky dodges to break the damn thing. That and at 25% HP flat absorption (whereas others would need to take more than what would have been their full HP to get that absorption under their equivalent skills), it'd still be overtuned in most contexts even if it were a 25-second CD.

[Kabooa]

My real concern is what HP scaling will eventually do to it in overgeared content... .

If you severely overgear content you don't need the shield and can just use the MP on flood.

[Shurrikhan]

If you severely overgear content you don't need the shield and can just use the MP on flood.

So what? Every other tank at that point IS getting free mitigation from their equivalents where you'd then have... nothing. Having TBN isn't balanced as a trade-off with damage; it's balanced such that TBN has limited use events, limiting it towards HoS/RI/ShT. But, by fundamental design that limiting mechanism can make it utterly unusable without tankbusters without losing damage, which creates a far larger blow than DRK is balanced around.

[Fynlar]

you can't realistically expect people to not stand in aoe every chance they get to pop TBN, if it's made DPS positive. That's the reason you can't reward TBN with damage.

Then by that logic BLM should be removed from the game, because the whole job practically encourages that behavior.

I'm not saying to never eat any avoidable damage, I am just asking to be smart about it. I don't think asking a tank to keep dodging tankbuster-tier AoEs is unreasonable. Had one who ate the falling buildings in Amaurot 1st boss to try to proc TBN (which did nearly 100k to him and he died from the second one) when there's plenty of other less threatening stuff to proc TBN in that fight.

Not just dead DPS, but dead tanks also do no damage (not to mention usually causes more problems for the rest of the party), and if a healer has to babysit you so you can feed your habit they're also not doing much damage.

[Interovegas]

Rubbish, it is a DPS loss.

There is no proof to back up this statement. Theorycrafting puts TBN on par or ahead of other abilities and more importantly FFlogs shows Dark Knight is only 1.5% lower on damage than GNB. In a party of 8 that is a 0.1875% dps loss for the overall team. Less than 1/5th of a percentage point of team damage for a tank that has dramatically higher durability.