Physical Ranged TANK

[whiskeybravo]

From a "gameplay" perspective, its perfect. But from a playerbase perspective, its annoying.
Which I feel is plenty fine. Most players find boss AoEs annoying, as it ruins stacks/casts/uptime.
Having a challenge be presented, and overcame, even if its as simple as an orange circle on the ground, is within range of acceptability, as long as it functions correctly from a gameplay perspective.
granted, if you argue its ok to annoy your player, thats another argument, as some players feel games should be easier, or more catered to their interests, which isnt "wrong", but does come with its downsides by doing so.

So I'm in agreement people will be annoyed, but I'm curious to go a step further, and think of what all that entails, both good and bad.

It's a stretch to call the gameplay perfect, you haven't defined much about it's gameplay at all aside from it acting as a role swapper. I mean, if you have to resort to throwing DPS buffs on people to make it look more attractive.. It should sell itself.

Interesting. Since this is only hypothetical, and no one can be punished for it, would anyone here actually vote kick out such a job? Would anyone here leave group? Its hard to imagine it would be "that bad" to be partnered, since you hardly change up your rotation.

Absolutely. When I queue up as a DPS it's because I want a break from tanking.

[MaraD_]

It's a stretch to call the gameplay perfect, you haven't defined much about it's gameplay at all aside from it acting as a role swapper.

The phrasing is a bit hard for me to articulate in this case, when i said gameplay, i more so mean the gimmick. Obviously we havent touched on the gameplay. But let's pretend it a 1to1 in DPS rotation/abilities, and CD use of another tank, like GNB.
If you feel GNB isnt perfect, then which ever tank you feel is the closest to perfect. (The word "perfect" is an exaggeration, but meant to get across the idea that the gimmick lacks any serious flaw in its ability to function in content.) Obviously im not saying it SHOULD be a clone of said tank, just to use for testing out the gimmick.

I mean, if you have to resort to throwing DPS buffs on people to make it look more attractive.. It should sell itself.

This statement is true, but I'd like to clarify first, this only applies to OTHER groups of people wanting to bring the job along. In an EX party, would groups forbid such a job to come? I think its possible, but some are desperate for tanks.
As for the second part, the job can sell itself to those who want to play it, regardless of this buff.
So I think its good to clarify you mean those who would want, or not want, to invite it to parties. Not those who would or wouldnt want to play it.

Absolutely. When I queue up as a DPS it's because I want a break from tanking.

Technically you could have that very thing by BEING this job. Of course, you cant play as it forever, and sometimes you're trying to level up other stuff.

EDIT: I think if the group hasnt actually fought any mobs yet, its easily provable the job was kicked for being said job.
Unlike other scenarios where you need to see text talking about it.
So not only is it reportable, it would be bannable.
(The answer would be to pull mobs until times up, then kick. To which, I think most players would just keep going if there's no issues with the 1st bit of the dungeon being already over. but I could be wrong)

[whiskeybravo]

This statement is true, but I'd like to clarify first, this only applies to OTHER groups of people wanting to bring the job along. In an EX party, would groups forbid such a job to come? I think its possible, but some are desperate for tanks.
As for the second part, the job can sell itself to those who want to play it, regardless of this buff.
So I think its good to clarify you mean those who would want, or not want, to invite it to parties. Not those who would or wouldnt want to play it.

Technically you could have that very thing by BEING this job. Of course, you cant play as it forever, and sometimes you're trying to level up other stuff.

EDIT: I think if the group hasnt actually fought any mobs yet, its easily provable the job was kicked for being said job.
Unlike other scenarios where you need to see text talking about it.
So not only is it reportable, it would be bannable.
(The answer would be to pull mobs until times up, then kick. To which, I think most players would just keep going if there's no issues with the 1st bit of the dungeon being already over. but I could be wrong)

It's just not really a good design, it's interesting, but not good. You expect when a tank shows up that they'll be tanking, not abdicating that role to someone else in the party. Yes, you may really really really be excited to play this style, but it's a group game so you need 3 or 7 other people who also want to play that style. And if they don't want to then you really can't compel them to. Reporting for vote kick abuse or not. Worst case they just drop.

[MaraD_]

you may really really really be excited to play this style

Technically I dont want to play it funny enough.
I just find it interesting. I'd rather be the actual person taking the hits.
But I love trying to think up new ways to do tanking/healing mechanics. (And im never really interested in new ways to DPS, despite how little variation there is of that, even if its more than variation of tanking/healing.)
EDIT: Id rather be the target of such a tank, but since I have little to no mitigation options on most jobs, it wouldnt feel enough different from being a DPS in solo play.

[ExLegen]

Ranged tank never going to happen in ff14. Why would they spend resources into a "ranged Tank"? there arent many people interested in this, and wouldnt really work without a pet (and wouldnt be a ranged tank anymore), and even then... why??? Its not practical, doenst make sense whatsoever... you want to kit the boss around to "keep the range" and turn the battlefield into a chaotic mess?

no thank you, i rather they spend resources to make the game and the current classes better.

ranged tank...... that maybe (and thats a far one) work on an action game like Tera with a lot of work.

[MaraD_]

Ranged tank never going to happen in ff14. Why would they spend resources into a "ranged Tank"? there arent many people interested in this, and wouldnt really work without a pet (and wouldnt be a ranged tank anymore), and even then... why??? Its not practical, doenst make sense whatsoever... you want to kit the boss around to "keep the range" and turn the battlefield into a chaotic mess?

All of this has been addressed.
Pets taking the damage is the most effective way to do it normally. But FFXIV is a game where pet interaction is absolutely horrible. So the "pet" is now another person, who can interact with bosses effectively.
Also, you're definition of what constitutes a tank is technically incorrect.
as explained here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5130239

people want variation in the roles.
some people loved playing chainmail, mace wielding clerics, and want to heal as something they view as tough and "bad @$$", but we continue to get more wand waving dress healers.
while i may be fine with it, i understand some people would like to be the actual fantasy role they envisioned.
for some people a physical ranged tank would be one. (Im not a fan of it, im more interested in a caster tank, and the elusive melee healer you occasionally see in select few MMOs)
but im aware of people existing who want things outside of the normal. im also aware of those who would love the quick queue of a tank, but to "feel" more like a DPS (and some arguing a support DPS, which this is the DNC of tanks essentially)

plus, we're never going to get another tank. realistically speaking, we'll get a 4th healer, and then SE will wind down with 1 DPS job every so often until the next MMO, and this becomes the back burner MMO that FFXI has become.

[Jasmyne]

To answer your question, I would be pretty annoyed if I were dps and they added a job that forced me into a role that I didn't queue for. That would mean I would be responsible for keeping the boss positioned properly (which is the tanks job) on top of my "more complicated than tank" dps rotation that's already hard enough to focus on. This job would be the ultimate wet dream for lazy tanks.

However I think this would have been a nice viable job in raids back before stances were removed. It would make it so the high dps tanks like warrior could be in deliverance, and depending on how it was done could actually make tank swaps completely trivial. It's a cool idea albeit kinda irrelevant at this point since the regular tanks could just tank the damn things themselves without worrying about losing benefits from a "dps stance". However I think it would still be a very cool option for a dps class to provide, essentially being a tank support job.

On the topic of ranged tanks, I think they could just give that role to GNB. If you leave melee range all your attacks become ranged and it could share some of MCH old animations that were removed. It would allow them to completely remove Lightning Shot and Rough Divide and would make the job immediately the most unique tank in the game. The only attacks that wouldn't swap to be ranged being AOE rotation and bow shock.