DRK do you wish you get Stalwart Soul at LV45 like the rest of the tanks?

[cactuarzzzz]

Been thinking for a while now. Would it be better to have a AOE Combo that doesn't use MP like the other tanks at LV45 instead of Flood of Darkness that eat too much MP?

[Absimiliard]

Yes. Yes it would. Flood of Darkness simply is not an acceptable substitute for having the second step of our AoE combo that early. We should really have both. At least then we could regen MP on AoE pulls and thus manage to make liberal use of Flood of Darkness. Still wouldn't make our low level AoE as strong as the others, but it would be a lot better.

[Valic]

I think it should be available within an earlier range but maybe not that early.

[Izsha]

The other tabks dont get resources from tgeir 2nd combo until the 70s. War gets gauge as a trait in the 70s when drk gets their mp gain combo.

No drk doesnt need mp at 45 off a combo unless you also give gauge etc to the other tabks at the same level.

[Absimiliard]

The other tabks dont get resources from tgeir 2nd combo until the 70s. War gets gauge as a trait in the 70s when drk gets their mp gain combo.

No drk doesnt need mp at 45 off a combo unless you also give gauge etc to the other tabks at the same level.

Warrior does not have to burn gauge to do an acceptable level of damage at low level. That is a strawman argument.

The other tanks also don't have to burn such a massive quantity of MP to get anything done. DRK is currently the weakest tank in any content below 70 by a pretty wide margin. From 1-69 it has the lowest damage output, the weakest mitigation, and the fewest utility tools available.

[Shurrikhan]

Warrior does not have to burn gauge to do an acceptable level of damage at low level. That is a strawman argument.

Neither does DRK, due to the massive potency increase of Flood of Darkness oGCDs, even if you were to only ever get 3-4 over the course of an AoE fight. We're talking up to an extra 1k potency from that alone. How many Mythril Tempest potency bonuses over Overpower would that take you, and how many seconds to put those out?

I'm not saying DRK shouldn't have stuff earlier, but its AoE output is sufficient over that level range.

[Absimiliard]

Stuff

There appears to be a miscommunication going on here. My complaints about DRK's gameplay in low level dungeons are limited to the pre-52 bracket. Chain pulling while continually starved of MP but also having nothing but Unleash until ticks bring you back up enough to use Flood again really isn't ideal, you have to admit. If you'll take a look at your own math, you'll see that I'm right. I'm not saying DRK is /bad/, I'm just saying you'd be better served using one of the other tanks in that level bracket.

Neither does DRK, due to the massive potency increase of Flood of Darkness oGCDs, even if you were to only ever get 3-4 over the course of an AoE fight. We're talking up to an extra 1k potency from that alone. How many Mythril Tempest potency bonuses over Overpower would that take you, and how many seconds to put those out?

I'm not saying DRK shouldn't have stuff earlier, but its AoE output is sufficient over that level range.

Odds are only your initial pull will see four floods. Subsequent pulls will probably involve a single Flood, maybe two if the DPS are slow. The majority of your time ends up being spent spamming a 150 potency Unleash while waiting for your MP to tick back up. Either way, I am not and have not made the claim that DRK has an unacceptable level of damage. My assertion was that it is the only tank job that has to burn such a large amount of MP to achieve the desired effect. Again, I reiterate that Flood itself is not the problem. Flood is a strong ability that gives you a lot of burst potential in low level dungeons. The only problem is that pesky MP issue when chain pulling. That's it. That is literally my only complaint about DRK's damage.

Okay! So now that that's hopefully completely over and done with, here's the real problem with DRK at low level: Its defenses suck pre-70. I'm surprised more people aren't bringing this up. Dark Mind might as well not even exist on most pulls.

[Izsha]

Straw man? Try again. Drks always focus on the lack of resource gain and combo damage yet entirely ignore all the other pieces of their aoe that has no equivalent on other tanks while leveling.

War: 2 step combo. 130+200. 165 avg. 1 aoe gauge gcd/min (infuriate)
Drk: 1 step. 150. 150 avg + flood+AD+Salted
Pld: 2 step. 150+220. 185 avg+ scorn
Gun: 2 step. 150+250. 200 avg.

Gun. Catridge aoe 72.
Pld. Mp aoe 72
War. Gauge on combo 74
Drk. 2nd combo(mp) 72

Literally no tank gets BOTH resources from aoe AND and aoe to spend that resource on until 72+. Plds get mp to....cast cures? Gun has cartiges but only single target spending option. Drk has the lowest gcd average but the most powerful ogcd that is gained at all times via ticks (pulling, out of combat etc), and still gained with other actions (C&S, blood weapon, etc) which evens it out with the lower gcd potency vs other tanks who have none of that. And lets not forget their 2 other aoes which gun and war have nothing to compare and only scorn on pld.

No one gets their full aoe potential until 72/74. Before that drk does similar damage to the other tanks with a gcd and powerful ogcd while other tanks do it with stronger gcds.

Is it boring to spam 1 gcd forever? Sure. Is it weaker? Nope. Flood (pre trait) does the same damage as the best tanks GCD action as an ogcd and has ways to slowly get that resource well before 72 in addition to 2 other ogcd aoes. It just goes into overdrive at 72.

Drk is fine at aoe. They have a low gcd potency but the most ogcd potency. Other 3 just have gcds and scorn.

[Absimiliard]

Snip

So let me get this straight. It's perfectly fine for DRK to mash a single button along with the occasional oGCD on trash pulls for the vast majority of its leveling experience while simultaneously being weaker defensively than the other tanks until it finally gets TBN. Also, your own numbers indicate that DRK has slightly less AoE DPS. It doesn't get Salted Earth for quite a while either.

Oh, and let's consider this for a moment: Abyssal Drain and Salted Earth are tied to cooldowns. Flood of Darkness/Shadow, meanwhile, eats enough MP that you probably aren't going to get to use it much during each individual pull. Even pulling wall to wall, its limited number of uses coupled with how long trash pulls typically take to AoE down in lower level dungeons ultimately results in DRK being vastly outstripped in its contribution to AoE damage by the other tanks. The numbers may appear similar up front, but that changes rather swiftly once gameplay comes into it. Of course, this is only true while leveling. DRK at high level actually has some very powerful AoE through its cooldowns and enhanced oGCDs.

[Izsha]

So let me get this straight. It's perfectly fine for DRK to mash a single button along with the occasional oGCD on trash pulls for the vast majority of its leveling experience while simultaneously being weaker defensively than the other tanks until it finally gets TBN. Also, your own numbers indicate that DRK has slightly less AoE DPS. It doesn't get Salted Earth for quite a while either.

Moving goalposts much? You said aoe was weaker. I pointed out that it wasnt. Now you are talking about boring (which i already pointed out before you anyway) and trash pull defenses.

I did not make a statement on that. Just responded to your innacurate claim that drk needs stalwart soul to do more aoe damage because it would actually jump drk WAY up in aoe damage pre 70 when it was already fine there due to everything i pointed out above.

So dont putt words in my mouth. I never made any claim beyond what i said and one of those is agreeing with you. 1 gcd is boring, but that doesnt make it weak.