When do the training wheels come off?

[AnnaUK]

I can tell you now I am new to this game but played my last for 12 years.

It is a lot to take take in and learn about. Also some servers have bonus xp like mine so levelling is faster.

I want to try tanking/healing in this game but people like you put me right off.. I bet you're one that complains there aren't enough tanks/healers...

[Nezerius]

I want to try tanking/healing in this game but people like you put me right off.. I bet you're one that complains there aren't enough tanks/healers...

The fact that you're posting on the forums already makes you more informed about the game, compared to the type of tanks that the OP is talking about. You'd probably be fine trying it out.

While I don't openly complain about these type of tanks, it does get a bit silly every now and then.
For example, I had a DRK in Holminster Switch who I had to inform about the job's AoE abilities. And after doing so, he'd still use then sporadically.
A lvl 71 tank should be knowing the basics of the role, at that point.

[AriaEnia]

I wish I can be a sprout forever. I have 96 days of playing time but there's still a sprout on my name. I'm free of people judging me, I'm still a newbie.

[MrKusakabe]

Sometimes the training wheels are re-installed by their mates..


I was in Garuda "Hard" and when I looked at the emnity, I was 2nd. Did not realized what that meant after a couple of seconds as soon as my aggro bar turned yellow - wait, there is a 2nd tank in this instance! How can I be 2nd on the aggro then?The gunbreaker was moving around, but quickly emnity #8. I could not even go into melee because I did that once and my emnity turned "blinking orange" so I displaced out half-way. After 9 years of LoL, I grew some thick skin, but I carefully worded my question around: "Is the tank AFK"?

And the other guy answers: "No, he is with me". That's it. That's all the reasoning. I was so damn tempted to verbally give this #8-emnity gunbreaker a reality check, but I did not. The other worse thing is that I was almost tanking as Red Mage when there was a Black Mage and Samurai...


The other pretty recent situation was Crysalis or whatever that's called (I keep confusing with that 90s software company Crysalis Software, the Lemmings guys!) and not only the healers were really terrible, but also one tank died like instantly. After a few early - and very random - deaths I asked the healers what's their problem as they were not healing us, only the tanks and still one of the tanks died constantly. And I could not do anything because of the Level sync. One healer said that the other one is rubbish and the tank "is made of paper maché". He had 0 HP so I waited until he was raised: 5,400HP. Me, Red Mage: 6,030.


One else left the duty, and I buzzed out right that moment as well...


I wonder how they even got there without getting depressed by people leaving, flaming, raging or being constantly chewing the soil. I sure would think there is something fundamentally wrong... But thinking is not their strength.


Another annoyance are White Knights:



There was a tank in TotoRak, a beginner dungeon, who did nothing. My cousin tanked as BLM. The tank spun his character awkwardly around (like analog controller) as if he is trying to aim a howitzer. Then he ran to a chest, opened it and stood there for minutes.

In the end, the healer White Knighted him: "He is maybe new", "He will learn", "We all were new". Uh, no, I can't remember as kid getting my first gameboy and constantly running into enemy bullets in Super Mario to figure out that I should not do that...


I left that dumb healer and the equally trash tank alone in disgust...

[Nyvara]

Thanks for all the responses. I didn't mean to start any arguments. Had a string of horrible duty roulettes and needed to vent.

Ha! See that's the thing with forums you could state the sky is blue and you would get 15 posts about how it's azure!

[Kemiko]

So, while I'm not here to white knight whatever it was you encountered I will say that people don't learn at the same speeds or even the same way. Also that past MMO experience can do just as much harm as good.

Friend of mine I got to try out the game has played other MMOs. They wanted to dive right into whatever it was I was doing (Orbonne Monastery). They were lv21. I explained that I was in content quite a ways off but they'll be able to experience 24-man raids long before then but he'd have to get through story a bit first. In the meantime, ic he was bored atm, we could do whatever dungeons he has.

He had no dungeons. He actually stopped doing MSQ around lv6. When he learned that most dungeons are unlocked through story he was legitimately offended by the very idea. (I did promote this as a story driven MMO, in case anyone thinks I gave him false expectations). Begrudgingly, he did story and I made sure to walk him to the novice hall. Told him to complete the stuff here as it'd teach him the basics everyone will expect you to be able to do and reward you with some cool gear including an xp boost ring for your troubles. Later found out he did none of them.

Later, he announced he unlocked Toto Rak and I offered to go with him. Saw he was in lv8-12 NQ gear. He expected the game to gear him even though he was always picking the gold quest rewards. I crafted him some lv28-31 gear (he was lv29) and mentioned he'd be able to unlock black mage soon. Ran the dungeon with him and suggested that he finishes his THM quests as he has to finish those before being able to do anything BLM. He wanted to continue the story a bit but said he would.

Later in the week I see he's a lv36 thm. I suggested he create a gearset with his job crystal. He had no idea what a job crystal was. I then found out he never even started the job quest as he had no idea where to go for it, despite looking up wikis for it. I thought that odd since wikis gives you the npc that gives the quest, the name of the quest and their location by map name and coordinants.

So I physically walked him there and showed him the npc. He responded with "I thought that was for a levequest unlock" since the only time he bothered with a +quest it unlocked levequests for that area.

I hadn't played with him since he unlocked Qarn but he's been a constant reminder that the most obvious things aren't obvious to everyone.

[Rivxkobe]

So what you're saying is that you were able to successfully handle the basics of the game because past experience had prepared you for it.

Did you ever consider that not everyone has that past experience?

FFXIV was my first MMO.

I started in 2.0

I wasn't great but I didn't wear equipment nearly 30 levels below my own, I didn't wear caster armor, I took the time to read my tooltips, I did my class/job quests. I equipped my job crystal when I got it. I mained Tank and I knew I had to use tank stance, and holding aggro was way harder back then.

"New" players are getting cradled now and people act as if it's okay if they haven't done any, let alone their level 30, class quest by Garuda. Players literally defend "new" players that do nothing or spam one attack because "new" when it isn't actually a reason. You can be "new" and still actually try playing the game half decently. But, no, there are people who will defend a sprout player no matter what.

Being a jerk doesn't help them get better but do you know what's even worse than that? Enabling their bad play and defending them from any criticism.

[Hiply]

I'm struggling to understand why you would expect someone doing an MSQ quest and not even level 50 yet to play the game to your strict requirements. Really all I can suggest is to get over yourself.

No offense but "I'm going to play a tank" should, by L44, at least come with "I should wear the toughest armor I can find...so maybe I shouldn't wear this cloth armor with intelligence as it's main stat". I don't think that's a strict requirement on the part of the OP, nor does - since the sprout had had to complete the quest where he's given his soul stone and told how to use it - having some reasonable expectation that said sprout actually equip it.

I have no expectations that a new L44 tank who hasn't tanked before to have eyes in the back of his/her head, anticipating situations where aggro is going to get ripped away and proactively handle it, know how to perfectly position bosses so they don't cleave the group, etc. I do think it's ok to expect someone who wants to tank to at least use the stone and put on role-suited gear as they trip over it.

[Nixxe]

FFXIV was my first MMO.

I started in 2.0

I wasn't great but I didn't wear equipment nearly 30 levels below my own, I didn't wear caster armor, I took the time to read my tooltips, I did my class/job quests. I equipped my job crystal when I got it. I mained Tank and I knew I had to use tank stance, and holding aggro was way harder back then.

"New" players are getting cradled now and people act as if it's okay if they haven't done any, let alone their level 30, class quest by Garuda. Players literally defend "new" players that do nothing or spam one attack because "new" when it isn't actually a reason. You can be "new" and still actually try playing the game half decently. But, no, there are people who will defend a sprout player no matter what.

Being a jerk doesn't help them get better but do you know what's even worse than that? Enabling their bad play and defending them from any criticism.

The bottomless well of angst that is General Discussion sure is exhausting.

Nobody is enabling anything. They should obviously be corrected (and I already said as much), but people should be patient and understanding, rather than looking for any excuse to rip their heads off because spoilers: it generally doesn't work. Sure didn't work in WoW where it was an overwhelmingly common practice to tear into people over the most trivial nonsense. New players and even veteran players kept right on being terrible and doing bizarre things. The only thing that really improved that was Blizzard literally making it more difficult to screw up.

[Tigore]

I have noticed in dungeons lately that there are much less players willing to teach. I used to see it more often in Heavensward when I admit I am new to a dungeon, but it doesn't seem to happen as often now. I have seen some say it may be because of some newer rules Square put in. Namely the one that says you could be banned for compelling a playstyle to another player. I get that one is probably meant for the healer DPS and tank DPS debate of rotations and materia melds, but the wording is way too broad. It makes it sound like an honest mentor could be banned for being helpful and they might not be allowed to appeal for it. It sounds iffy that the rules make the moderators sound infallible when they are human as well.

As a side note, I do try my best to briefly explain what the mechanics are. If the dungeon says someone is new here, I may mention if something unusual and different pops up that could mess them up if ignored. Unless a marker is "new" for a level range, I may not mention it unless we are clearly wiping to that since most players find it basic knowledge in higher levels.