When do the training wheels come off?

[xbahax92]

I have noticed in dungeons lately that there are much less players willing to teach. I used to see it more often in Heavensward when I admit I am new to a dungeon, but it doesn't seem to happen as often now.

As a side note, I do try my best to briefly explain what the mechanics are. If the dungeon says someone is new here, I may mention if something unusual and different pops up that could mess them up if ignored.

After getting told "I know what to do, you dont have to tell me this/that, you dont pay my sub", even veterans lose the interest to teach others. Beside, if you were to teach every bad player in your daily roulettes, you wouldnt manage to finish your dailies. And sorry - but someone who works and has a rl and only a few hours spare time, this cant be done with everyone. Beside there are friends and FC mates/newbies that need the same help, why would you help randoms which will disappear after the dungeon clear or actually ignore your messages in the chat?

And the problem isnt really about explaining boss mechanics, everyone got their own pace and learning those patterns/puzzles is pretty easy, mechanics are the less evil here.
But I believe some really think, teaching roles/jobs can be done between the pulls, and thats really naive. There are many things new players dont know, even more if they never played a MMO before. Damage mitigation with buffs, healing over time, damage over time effects... AoE potency scaling up at 2+ mobs already, weaving your OGCD skills between every GCD skill... All these things take more time than "hey I will bomb you with information now and you'll definetly get better after!".

This information has to be in the game first. If new players still have questions or struggle with stuff, they still have the chance to ask other players/friends/FC members.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

After getting told "I know what to do, you dont have to tell me this/that, you dont pay my sub", even veterans lose the interest to teach others. Beside, if you were to teach every bad player in your daily roulettes, you wouldnt manage to finish your dailies. And sorry - but someone who works and has a rl and only a few hours spare time, this cant be done with everyone. Beside there are friends and FC mates/newbies that need the same help, why would you help randoms which will disappear after the dungeon clear or actually ignore your messages in the chat?

And the problem isnt really about explaining boss mechanics, everyone got their own pace and learning those patterns/puzzles is pretty easy, mechanics are the less evil here.
But I believe some really think, teaching roles/jobs can be done between the pulls, and thats really naive. There are many things new players dont know, even more if they never played a MMO before. Damage mitigation with buffs, healing over time, damage over time effects... AoE potency scaling up at 2+ mobs already, weaving your OGCD skills between every GCD skill... All these things take more time than "hey I will bomb you with information now and you'll definetly get better after!".

This information has to be in the game first. If new players still have questions or struggle with stuff, they still have the chance to ask other players/friends/FC members.

Reminds me of when I was new and I kept wondering why people were talking about pounds in chat. It wasn't until later that I realized people were telling me to use Limit Break.

[Forever_Learning]

I played this game originally in ARR, raided coil, and then left when my raid team feel apart. I cam back six months ago, and the amount of content available is a bit overwhelming, so I really appreciate the novice network being there for questions.


I have a sprout symbol, I always tell people when I'm new somewhere; however, I find other players in the game just view me as stupid at times, rather than learning, or realize I'm making dumb new player mistakes that I'll later laugh about.

For example, I only recently began using plates and gear swap macros for my various jobs, but before I wasn't sure how to do that, and I was scared of making a mistake, so I relied a lot on the recommended gear slot (blissfully unaware of its drawbacks)

About a month or two ago, I qued up for leviathan, switched jobs, and when it popped, I equipped my weapon to change jobs (cause I wasnt doing plate macros yet, nor do most new people), and then clicked the recommended gear button to get into the instance as fast as I could because I was already late responding.

I entered the trial thinking everything was fine, but then it began:

-OMG, how stupid can you be
-Please delete your account, why are your bothering us?
-Well, level 50 and still a conjurer - guess that's one way to play.

To my shock and horror, the recommend gear button had left out my job stone. I think "ok, I'll just equip it now" - but I can't.

However, the ridicule continued against me, and I just kept getting insult after insult.

Was that truly deserved? Did people really think I had chosen to never do a job quest or had no idea that I needed to equip the stone?

Sometimes, people make mistakes, we correct them, and we move on.

Point being, people are quick to judge.

When I returned from the trial, I explained what happened to the novice network, and they were able to figure out it was due to the recommended gear button, so I've never made that mistake again. In contrast, when I ask people for help for advice in a dungeon, all I get is silence or a "don't die."

There is so much in this game that isn't explained within the game. I keep watching videos and reading guides, but as it is with everything in life, there is no substitute for experience, asking questions is typical, and mistakes when you are learning is NORMAL.

[Insertcoins]

Not really related but I'm leveling an alt on balmung and I just hit 45 and finished a dungeon.... I did NOT get loot at the end. I'm guessing this only happens in stormblood and shadows cause leveling under 60 I have NOT gotten gear thur the dungeons like you do at max. So thats a thing. And ofcourse gear on the market board cost too freakign much for a new player with no gil. I've been stuck with 20k for 15 levels. And buck those crafters selling rings you can't get at venders between the 30's and 50's being over a mil gill each >:O. I can see how new players aren't geared if they are running into gear issues like I am. Lucky enough I had to BEG a friend of mine to loan me some gil so I can buy the stuff off the MB. But yeah.. I knew I wasn't crazy.

[NzomiKujo]

Not really related but I'm leveling an alt on balmung and I just hit 45 and finished a dungeon.... I did NOT get loot at the end. I'm guessing this only happens in stormblood and shadows cause leveling under 60 I have NOT gotten gear thur the dungeons like you do at max. So thats a thing. And ofcourse gear on the market board cost too freakign much for a new player with no gil. I've been stuck with 20k for 15 levels. And buck those crafters selling rings you can't get at venders between the 30's and 50's being over a mil gill each >:O. I can see how new players aren't geared if they are running into gear issues like I am. Lucky enough I had to BEG a friend of mine to loan me some gil so I can buy the stuff off the MB. But yeah.. I knew I wasn't crazy.

The MSQ gives you gear. You can buy stuff from NPC, no need to buy it from marketboard, can buy gear from Grand Company too.
But gear won't help you if you use freestyle rotations. GCBTW

[Insertcoins]

The MSQ gives you gear. You can buy stuff from NPC, no need to buy it from marketboard, can buy gear from Grand Company too.
But gear won't help you if you use freestyle rotations. GCBTW

Not if you're already done the MSQ. On my alt Im at the 75 quest but I got bored of the main I had on her and switched. So my highest on her is 75 which means there's no MSQ to do on an alt job. And no I couldn't buy gear at the vender cause the level I'm at there's no vender that sells the rings from 39 to 50 I believe. My only choice was the MB and all of those rings are stupid high. Again I ONLY have 20k That aint getting you much.

Thats why I had to beg a friend of mine to loan me gil. the only rings I see are 39 and a massive jump to 50 at the other vender. So those 40's I had/have to buy from the MB and those are over priced like a mug. WHY are those rings so over priced????!!!??!?!

[Hash_Browns]

I'm stuggling to understand why you would expect someone doing an MSQ quest and not even level 50 yet to play the game to your strict requirements. Really all I can suggest is to get over yourself.

I really love that the "strict requirements" are:

1) Holding aggro
2) Having decent gear for your class
3) Having a job stone equipped

The very basics of gameplay.

[Forever_Learning]

I really love that the "strict requirements" are:

1) Holding aggro
2) Having decent gear for your class
3) Having a job stone equipped

The very basics of gameplay.

Hold Aggro - ok.

Decent gear - when you are low level, spamming dungeons, you can often move up several levels and discover your gear is less than optimal, but sufficient anyway, you just move on.

Are you seriously saying I should spam something like the vault until I upgrade all my gear, and only then move onto great gubal library?

No one does this - you spam the vault a couple times to reach level 58, then you spam library, and whatever gear you get along the way is bonus.

You also do this because you are clearing the dungeon rather than wiping, so the gear equipped is sufficient, meaning there's little incentive for seeking out much better gear.

Regarding the job stone being equipped, see my earlier post. It can be a mistake related to being unaware of problems with the recommended gear button.

For several minutes I had people massively harass me due to this mistake, novice network explained what I did wrong in under 30 seconds - who do you think was helping me be a better player?

Sadly this is true. My sister came to Siren when the Road to 60 was still active, and she hit level 34 so fast. She couldn't change to BRD yet as she wasn't there in the MSQ. I've had it happen on my character as well, duing stuff over level 30 where one "should" have their job class then.

When I first saw the comment that level 44 was high, my first reaction was the same: No, it isn't.

You can do almost nothing and reach level 44 - I think just four times in PotD will do it.

[Hash_Browns]

Hold Aggro - ok.

Decent gear - when you are low level, spamming dungeons, you can often move up several levels and discover your gear is less than optimal, but sufficient anyway, you just move on.

Are you seriously saying I should spam something like the vault until I upgrade all my gear, and only then move onto great gubal library?

Having full poetics gear isn't comparable to having a mix of +10 levels under gear that's a mix of caster/DPS/tank gear for a 4 man trial.

[Rivxkobe]

Decent gear - when you are low level, spamming dungeons, you can often move up several levels and discover your gear is less than optimal, but sufficient anyway, you just move on.

Are you seriously saying I should spam something like the vault until I upgrade all my gear, and only then move onto great gubal library?

No one does this - you spam the vault a couple times to reach level 58, then you spam library, and whatever gear you get along the way is bonus.

You also do this because you are clearing the dungeon rather than wiping, so the gear equipped is sufficient, meaning there's little incentive for seeking out much better gear.

I'm going to state this once.

Please read it carefully:

Doing the MSQ and Class/Job Quests gives you equipment. There is no reason, beyond being neglectful, that anyone doing ARR should end up going into a dungeon/trial with equipment more than (a lenient) 10 levels below the dungeon's/Trial's level. Not only that but equipment is insanely cheap to purchase from stores if you are THAT hard up for a piece of equipment. This all excludes Accessories because they don't actually matter much while leveling.

Also, you aren't wiping because the other players are carrying you.