When do the training wheels come off?

[Nixxe]

So the game telling you every 5 levels about doing your job quests isnt enough? That one very early MSQ quest telling you about the importance of gear and literally not letting you proceed without equipping half decent gear for ypur level isnt a big enough hint? The MSQ and side quests drowning you in gear isnt enough?

Yes, I don't think it's enough to guarantee that every last player gets the message and correctly understands it, even if they aren't just especially stupid or lazy. To accomplish that, they'd likely have to make class and job quests required for the MSQ, impose stricter job and class requirements on low level gear, and add ilvl requirements throughout the leveling portions of the MSQ. It's easy to sit here and be indignant because how dare anyone not figure everything out immediately, but people come to this game from vastly differing backgrounds, which will affect how they interpret what is shown to them. Many players probably will assume their gear is good enough so long as they continue to succeed. Likewise, since the gear does impose some restrictions on even the lowest level gear, the absence of that on other pieces might be understood as tacitly endorsing it for all classes. Class quests may seem like an only somewhat important side quest that can be done at their own leisure. There are plenty of ways ordinary people with limited or no experience with this genre could end up doing things horribly wrong that do not require there to be any particular deficiency with them as people. You'd have to be quite foolish to think otherwise.

[Mavrias]

Yes, I don't think it's enough to guarantee that every last player gets the message and correctly understands it, even if they aren't just especially stupid or lazy. To accomplish that, they'd likely have to make class and job quests required for the MSQ, impose stricter job and class requirements on low level gear, and add ilvl requirements throughout the leveling portions of the MSQ. It's easy to sit here and be indignant because how dare anyone not figure everything out immediately, but people come to this game from vastly differing backgrounds, which will affect how they interpret what is shown to them. Many players probably will assume their gear is good enough so long as they continue to succeed. Likewise, since the gear does impose some restrictions on even the lowest level gear, the absence of that on other pieces might be understood as tacitly endorsing it for all classes. Class quests may seem like an only somewhat important side quest that can be done at their own leisure. There are plenty of ways ordinary people with limited or no experience with this genre could end up doing things horribly wrong that do not require there to be any particular deficiency with them as people. You'd have to be quite foolish to think otherwise.

Oh i dont think they have a deficiency. Just that theyre lazy and dont want to read. Even if the playguide (which the game reminds you of every time you log in until you turn it off) werent a thing, all the active help pop ups are there, and tbh all the gear given to you like candy+ equip best gear button should equal a half decently geared player.

The pop literally says "doing the class quests will give you new abilities" what part of that sounds optional? This was also my first mmo, but even i got the memo "hey, jerk, do your class quests."

After 30 levels you should have the very basics of "i should improve my gear and do class quests" at any point after that being kicked for wearing gear so far below your level (or strsight up the wrong gear) shouldnt be a surprise.

[Rivxkobe]

So what you're saying is that you were able to successfully handle the basics of the game because past experience had prepared you for it.

Did you ever consider that not everyone has that past experience?

FFXIV was my first MMO.

I started in 2.0

I wasn't great but I didn't wear equipment nearly 30 levels below my own, I didn't wear caster armor, I took the time to read my tooltips, I did my class/job quests. I equipped my job crystal when I got it. I mained Tank and I knew I had to use tank stance, and holding aggro was way harder back then.

"New" players are getting cradled now and people act as if it's okay if they haven't done any, let alone their level 30, class quest by Garuda. Players literally defend "new" players that do nothing or spam one attack because "new" when it isn't actually a reason. You can be "new" and still actually try playing the game half decently. But, no, there are people who will defend a sprout player no matter what.

Being a jerk doesn't help them get better but do you know what's even worse than that? Enabling their bad play and defending them from any criticism.

[Nixxe]

FFXIV was my first MMO.

I started in 2.0

I wasn't great but I didn't wear equipment nearly 30 levels below my own, I didn't wear caster armor, I took the time to read my tooltips, I did my class/job quests. I equipped my job crystal when I got it. I mained Tank and I knew I had to use tank stance, and holding aggro was way harder back then.

"New" players are getting cradled now and people act as if it's okay if they haven't done any, let alone their level 30, class quest by Garuda. Players literally defend "new" players that do nothing or spam one attack because "new" when it isn't actually a reason. You can be "new" and still actually try playing the game half decently. But, no, there are people who will defend a sprout player no matter what.

Being a jerk doesn't help them get better but do you know what's even worse than that? Enabling their bad play and defending them from any criticism.

The bottomless well of angst that is General Discussion sure is exhausting.

Nobody is enabling anything. They should obviously be corrected (and I already said as much), but people should be patient and understanding, rather than looking for any excuse to rip their heads off because spoilers: it generally doesn't work. Sure didn't work in WoW where it was an overwhelmingly common practice to tear into people over the most trivial nonsense. New players and even veteran players kept right on being terrible and doing bizarre things. The only thing that really improved that was Blizzard literally making it more difficult to screw up.

[Shurrikhan]

So what you're saying is that you were able to successfully handle the basics of the game because past experience had prepared you for it.

Did you ever consider that not everyone has that past experience?

A few of the friends I got to try XIV had scarcely played video games, and not a single MMO, before trying it. None of them had issues learning it, with only the occasional idiosyncrasy needing explanation (like server tick rates from which to get an accurate potency estimate for DoTs) to understand and play the game as well as pretty much anyone else. And it's not like they're the kind to just pick up and master anything or everything; the experience gained over leveling, especially back at 2.0 where expectations were a bit higher, was simply sufficient for learning for anyone who cared to think, at all, about what they were doing and how best to do it.

[Kaethra]

I'll be the bad guy.

I don't know why we talk about new players as if they were defenseless babies. When I started playing during 2.0, I picked the tank role up and I KNEW that I had to wear heavy armor because I have to eat damage and better armor gives better reduction, right? Like every RPG ever. You learn while doing dungeons that, as you progress, better gear will drop (Green big numbers with a plus sign indicating it's an upgrade) And that's a something you have to be aware of, specially when you know you will get paired up with other people. So I feel it's just laziness. It's an attitude that I've seen plenty of times in this game no matter what level.

I'm going to join in with you.

Everyone wants to go 'we need more tutorials, we need more quests to show us how to play!' or some other noob coddling nonsense.

Maybe if new players were kicked in the rear a bit harder, they wouldn't be relying on carries, and would be more apt to learning their class, role, and abilities. Just because Sastasha pops up, doesn't mean the conjurors, gladiators, and marauders get a pass. They ARE expected to play their roles. The only pass they may get is not knowing fights. But they will be expected to keep mobs off everyone else if they are tanking, and will be expected to keep hp bars topped off if a healer, and to take down mobs as dps.

But yeah.. I have to agree with others. By level 44 you are not a new player. To me, 30 is the cap off point. You've got a basic rotation, all the tools needed for your role, and had a bunch of gear thrown your way to know what goes where. Make it work. If you're a gamer, should be no problem. If you're not, do whatever your boyfriend tells you to do.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'll be the bad guy.

I don't know why we talk about new players as if they were defenseless babies. When I started playing during 2.0, I picked the tank role up and I KNEW that I had to wear heavy armor because I have to eat damage and better armor gives better reduction, right? Like every RPG ever. You learn while doing dungeons that, as you progress, better gear will drop (Green big numbers with a plus sign indicating it's an upgrade) And that's a something you have to be aware of, specially when you know you will get paired up with other people. So I feel it's just laziness. It's an attitude that I've seen plenty of times in this game no matter what level.

I don't think you are the bad guy. FFXIV is not a hard game to grasp.

It is a mark of mental laziness to not be geared in the ballpark. If you do the side quests, the game gives you the gear. All you have to do is complete the quests.

[Ayer2015]

I'll be the bad guy.

I don't know why we talk about new players as if they were defenseless babies.

I beg to differ.

[TaiyouSeishin]

I dont think jumping down someones throat is a good idea.

Honestly though id be amazed that its level 44 and they are still a gladiator. If the healer knew he was new, then why hasnt the healer rectified it? (Saying they are in party together)

As for past experiences being a factor. I could agree that maybe they didnt have past experiences, buy considering level 44 is 6 levels away from 2.0 endgame... they should have some experience by then, they should have their job by then, they should know their required main stats by then (so no caster gear unless it was a nonspecific all stat gear).

This is bother the level 44 gladiator not asking questions, or even trying to learn the game, to any of his peers not helping him.

Honestly, id have seen a level 44 gladiator, and then id take the punishment for leaving the dungeon (unless he just didnt equip his job stone because he does it manually like i did at the start)

[Diggles]

With Road to 70 buff you can get to 50 in a weekend as a brand new player these days. I know because I did it recently. While I already had extensive MMO experience, you have to remember that this game attracts people of ALL experience levels, especially with the current hype surrounding it.

Instead of judging a sprout from the perspective of someone who’s been playing MMOs for 20 years, I judge them by remembering how steep the initial MMO learning curve can be, especially for someone who’s also new to RPG games in general. There is no way for someone to learn everything you’re expecting them to know in the couple of days that they can reach the level that you’re encountering them at.

Shame on you. Be nice to our sprouts - they are the future of this game.