Upcoming ninja changes for 5.08 and 5.1

[armandojc3]

From the live letter this morning. Ninja damage will be slightly increased in 5.08 but the job will be reworked for 5.1. Trick attack will remain (ugh) so the job will stay low personal dps.

Just remove that damn trick attack already.


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Q1:
As a ninja player in Savage, when comparing DPS with other melee DPS I feel like the potency increase to Gust Slash was not enough for our overall damage. Our damage feels lacking for the amount of difficulty when playing the job. Any plans for ninja adjustment?

A1:
Many players provided feedback regarding ninja, so we touched on the topics via a presentation slide.

The development team believes the following three points are the main issues

◆Ninjutsu and mudra combinations being disrupted by GCD timing causes clunkiness.
Ninjutsu is easily influenced by lag, and we were reaching a limit as to how we could adjust it, so we are planning to restructure ninjutsu itself. The playstyle of putting together mudra will remain, but they will not be weaved between GCDs.

Instead, we are thinking the playstyle will be something along the lines of:
Use a combo > use ninjutsu > return to combo

However this adjustment would require readjusting ninja’s entire DPS, so we were unable to make the adjustments in time for patch 5.05. Therefore these adjustments will be made in patch 5.1.
◆Too many inputs are required to perform rotations for maximum damage output.
We are reconsidering the combo rotation.
◆The party utility of Trick Attack and ninja’s total damage output need to be balanced.
We will be increasing ninja's personal damage in patch 5.08. However, Trick Attack has a lot of influence over the party’s DPS, so the values will be adjusted with this in mind. Additionally, as mentioned above, please keep in mind that these adjusted values may be readjusted again in patch 5.1

[cactuarzzzz]

When is 5.08 release date?

[CrashofZenki]

So... Instead of boosting NIN, they are gonna simplify it by making it a Melee DNC? Why cant they just freaking rework TA already and make us actual Assassins with actual damage. Ninja as a party buffer should have ended with them saying they wanted to remove synergy on the classes....

If they are to simplify NIN, then I aint gonna bother playing it anymore. It was pretty much the only class I enjoy playing BECAUSE of how hard it is to master. The only issue I had with it personally was how low pDPS and rDPS it gave despite the effort placed into it COMPAIRED to classes you can pretty much do 1-2-3 combo on.

The MNK changes was justified because of it being harder to play than SAM for sure. But they should have showed the same love for NIN. Make them up there with MNK.

Balancing should in first term be done by how hard a class is to play, THEN take into account any synegry.

Excusing themselves with "Oh no, we cant because bla bla would be perma META" is a lame and short minded excuse. Even if a class might fit perfectly in a meta doesnt mean the person playing the meta job is gonna perform to the hight of which the meta would result in a higher output than "unconventional" groupings.

Just because a job has the POTENTIAL to be "OMG OP PLZ NERF" Doesnt mean it should be unless a high majority of the players hit the numbers needed to kill another spot.

Even back in previous expansions NIN was never highest even accounting rDPS, so I dont get the focus on batteling META. Sheep voices should not dictate actual facts.

Just because people thought they needed a NIN for a static over lets say a MNK, doesnt give room to punish NIN for the short thinking of players.

Square Enix, dont take the easy way out. Make NIN how they should be. An actual Assassin, a master of dualweilding. A Killer, A lone wolf... Not a glorified team Buff. Because if this keeps going you might as well remove all its abilities except Trick Attack and have it do one ability every minute.

Thank you.

[Shurrikhan]

Not sure how I feel about the Ninjutsu changes. Rather, I'm pretty sure I hate the idea of making them more clunky by putting them on the GCD, rather than simply switching to client-side. Frankly, I wouldn't care that much if some few in tens of thousands of NIN were hacking to complete their Ninjutsu a little earlier than they otherwise could' it'd be visible to those watching (and recording), and would be just as bannable as any other form of speed-hacking. The reward is more than worth the risk.

And if we're so worried about GCD disruption, why not just allow them to be woven, as well? Ready your Ninjutsu and you have 5 seconds, regardless of other actions, to use it. Voila, no huge rDPS buff, but it's less clunky (rather than more, as per the suggested changes).

I enjoy NIN's APM. I just want more rDPS from it, just as I do for SMN, MCH, BRD, RDM, SAM, and DNC. (Or, alternately, from all those but SAM, and MNK and BLM reeled in a little.)

[CrashofZenki]

Snip!

Agree with this, they should indeed be client side, its the One beats all answer to permanently remove mudra latency.
I have also been into the thought of having the mudra be opened to GCDs between imputs. I do not see a reason why this cant be a thing. Ofc, for someone who is in a hectic part of a fight and a little derpy can end up messing it up. aka... It keeps the NIN complexity, while making room for different latency values.

[RyuDragnier]

◆Ninjutsu and mudra combinations being disrupted by GCD timing causes clunkiness.
Ninjutsu is easily influenced by lag, and we were reaching a limit as to how we could adjust it, so we are planning to restructure ninjutsu itself. The playstyle of putting together mudra will remain, but they will not be weaved between GCDs.

Instead, we are thinking the playstyle will be something along the lines of:
Use a combo > use ninjutsu > return to combo

However this adjustment would require readjusting ninja’s entire DPS, so we were unable to make the adjustments in time for patch 5.05. Therefore these adjustments will be made in patch 5.1.

Wait, so they may end up as combo finishers after certain moves are used, like with DRG? That sounds weird but MIGHT work.

◆Too many inputs are required to perform rotations for maximum damage output.
We are reconsidering the combo rotation.

Thank god. I'm leveling NIN right now and it makes no sense that you have to put in more effort for less damage than the other classes. SAM takes less work than NIN, and that makes no sense IMO.

[Drayos]

So... Instead of boosting NIN, they are gonna simplify it by making it a Melee DNC? Why cant they just freaking rework TA already and make us actual Assassins with actual damage. Ninja as a party buffer should have ended with them saying they wanted to remove synergy on the classes....

If they are to simplify NIN, then I aint gonna bother playing it anymore. It was pretty much the only class I enjoy playing BECAUSE of how hard it is to master. The only issue I had with it personally was how low pDPS and rDPS it gave despite the effort placed into it COMPAIRED to classes you can pretty much do 1-2-3 combo on.

The MNK changes was justified because of it being harder to play than SAM for sure. But they should have showed the same love for NIN. Make them up there with MNK.

Balancing should in first term be done by how hard a class is to play, THEN take into account any synegry.

Excusing themselves with "Oh no, we cant because bla bla would be perma META" is a lame and short minded excuse. Even if a class might fit perfectly in a meta doesnt mean the person playing the meta job is gonna perform to the hight of which the meta would result in a higher output than "unconventional" groupings.

Just because a job has the POTENTIAL to be "OMG OP PLZ NERF" Doesnt mean it should be unless a high majority of the players hit the numbers needed to kill another spot.

Even back in previous expansions NIN was never highest even accounting rDPS, so I dont get the focus on batteling META. Sheep voices should not dictate actual facts.

Just because people thought they needed a NIN for a static over lets say a MNK, doesnt give room to punish NIN for the short thinking of players.

Square Enix, dont take the easy way out. Make NIN how they should be. An actual Assassin, a master of dualweilding. A Killer, A lone wolf... Not a glorified team Buff. Because if this keeps going you might as well remove all its abilities except Trick Attack and have it do one ability every minute.

Thank you.

This isn’t true, in games such as WoW it was common for rogues/assassins to have abilities which increased damages itself and others did. Making targets vulnerable etc etc.

The difference is this game takes RDPS into account. And no. It wasn’t “said” it was proven by speed kills. Ninjas we’re requirement in a perfect comp. this isn’t fixable but just saying “oh wow well ignore it” isn’t the answer either.

I hope they nerf TA to 120 sec CD bringing its rdps to 450. And letting it be buffed up in pdps.

[CrashofZenki]

You kinda missed the point. The only way NIN was in a perfect comp was if the group itself consisted of a full group of amazing players. It all comes back to my statement of... Even in a 0.1% Chance of a NIN being OP, dont punish the 99,9% of the rest. And seeing how you reacted to my claims, I believe you are in the exact same boat as the other hivemind META this META that people. Just because it can be amazing, doesnt mean everyone NEEDS one. And quite frankly WANT one. If your DPS is average in your raid group, dont go for a NIN expecting the group to be carried by AMAZING rDPS. So cut the crap, and think for yourself and actually test things out.

And that comes back to my original concern... If they cant get people to understand that meta isnt always meta, then they should rework or remove TA. And make the DPS up to the current level of difficulty.

*Mic Drop*

[Maneesha]

ninja was meta because of enmity manipulation and trick attack, not trick attack by it self.

i dislike how their approach to changing ninja sounds. i will ofc reserve judgment until i get my hands on the new version, but the main reason i liked ninja is because of the fast paced style and the amount of ogcd you had to use, even if you clipped your gcd at times.

while monk's play style is similarly fast thanks to greased lightning, his play style is more focused on positioning and they removed a lot of his ogcd skills.

ugh.. i hope they don't ruin the job -.-

[Laur1x]

inb4 they buff us to be competitive in 5.08, then nerf us to the ground with the 5.1 re-work