Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

[Shurrikhan]

I'm always fascinated by how people consistently re-frame events in a way that supports their desired self-image. It's not "I make mistakes on DRK because I'm struggling to keep track of things," it's "I lose track of things because I'm thinking much too quickly and DRK's slow pace lulls me into a sense of complacency." Uh-huh.

I think you've just stumbled over one of the hallmarks of a resource-based job vs. a rotation-based job, though. Rotations can be executed on auto-pilot with repetition and practice. Resource management demands your attention, even while you're doing new mechanics. You don't notice it as much in simple fights, but it becomes painfully obvious in ones with any degree of complexity or new mechanics.

Except, I don't find the gameplay "lazy by comparison [to GNB]" in a way that would facilitate slipage in, say, extreme primal fights or when speedrunning dungeons or when raid (de)buffs are in play. Odd, that.

Yes, rotation-based jobs are easier to keep track of and auto-pilot than resource-based ones. Did I say otherwise? No, I said specifically that DRK (resource-based) is harder to keep track of, for me, than GNB (rotation-based). This is especially true, for me, when tired, bored, and/or annoyed.

Short of raid (de)buffs, I have TBN, and otherwise just vaguely managing MP and Blood. And, to me, that doesn't feel like all that much to command my attention (yes, command -- thereby facilitating attention) compared to GNB. What is so foreign and antithetical about this statement to you?

I could understand "I don't want a single bit more order via rotational fixture or similar designs, in what is currently almost complete flexibility, in my DRK!" And I'd respect that. But, would that be any less subjective a preference? Would your opinion on your own preferred playstyle be any less subjective than mine?

[Interovegas]

Except, I don't find the gameplay "lazy by comparison [to GNB]" in a way that would facilitate slipage in, say, extreme primal fights or when speedrunning dungeons or when raid (de)buffs are in play. Odd, that.

Yes, rotation-based jobs are easier to keep track of and auto-pilot than resource-based ones. Did I say otherwise? No, I said specifically that DRK (resource-based) is harder to keep track of, for me, than GNB (rotation-based). This is especially true, for me, when tired, bored, and/or annoyed.

Short of raid (de)buffs, I have TBN, and otherwise just vaguely managing MP and Blood. And, to me, that doesn't feel like all that much to command my attention (yes, command -- thereby facilitating attention) compared to GNB. What is so foreign and antithetical about this statement to you?

I could understand "I don't want a single bit more order via rotational fixture or similar designs, in what is currently almost complete flexibility, in my DRK!" And I'd respect that. But, would that be any less subjective a preference? Would your opinion on your own preferred playstyle be any less subjective than mine?

>Hops in<

Your points are valid. But yes, if Lyth's preference was for rotational flexibility it would take precedence here. In the broader scope of the game there are 4 tank classes that each play differently (to some degree). Since the GNB already exists as a go to for structured rotation gameplay and the PLD and WAR exist somewhere in between it stands to reason that the DRK ought to remain flexible. This gives more options to a set of players with diverse gameplay preferences.

[Quor]

"No lore."
I mean, sure, we didn't get a set of quests dedicated to us, but the final journal entry for the level 80 quest has more lore implications than half the entire job questline of any other given job.

[ADVSS]

"No lore."
I mean, sure, we didn't get a set of quests dedicated to us, but the final journal entry for the level 80 quest has more lore implications than half the entire job questline of any other given job.

LOL DRK has been an illusion all along. Even the lore is trying to tell us thats a pebble and not a real job stone.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

If there was ever a lesson I've learned from XIV, it's to NEVER complain about a job mechanic being too hard. They go way too far with these requests for changes to a system.

[Tobalito]

I enjoy the new DRK!

[Shurrikhan]

But yes, if Lyth's preference was for rotational flexibility it would take precedence here.

Agreed. While I've played DRK more than other tanks since its release, I'd still put added weight on the opinions of veteran and more single-job DRK players where aligned with what we already have, while I'd certainly deweight the opinions of those who have yet to play the job at a high level (including my own, for the time being, until I have more than just three tanks at 80 and each have done some Savage -- especially DRK). But, if 66-75% of at least capable players want X and the remaining 33-25% of more veteran players want Y, we'd be nearing borderline territory, so long as both are informed of what the reality of play is now and can well imagine the consequences of what they're suggesting.

The fact that DRK stands as something distinct should also be protected, and adds even further weight in the veterans' favor. Thus, while I don't like DRK as much as GNB, I like that it's... not GNB. But, again, mine was merely an offhand comment meant solely to be subjective. I don't mind DRK being resource-based, either; I just wish it took that aspect further to offer more depth. I want it to still be wholly "DRK", just... more DRK, if that makes sense.

[Interovegas]

Snip

I'm inclined to believe a good number of players want to play for DRK for the visuals and theme but don't like the gameplay. The issue arises that they want to play a class with the styles of the DRK but the gameplay loop of PLD or GNB. Unfortunately making changes to satisfy a group with these motivations will only reduce tank diversity further.

Such is it in MMOs that the gameplay we prefer doesn't always align with the theme and styles we prefer.

[RitzNBitz]

When 2.0 came out I could never find myself interested in tanking because Tanks had the most mind numbing long GCD's. Asides from the occasional OGCD, and tank cooldown you were essentially idle for at least 2s and some change.

On an abstract level, no job is 'interesting' because you just press a key on your keyboard or a button on your gamepad and something happens. Its all the same, whether you're a DPS, Healer or Tank. Dark arts did not make the job more complicated, it gave you something to press between those long GCD's on almost regular basis.

Having something to press between every GCD gives a sense of speed that tanks were lacking because you're not just sitting idle between it. You had to be actively engaged even between your main attacks. Having that extra skill speed on blood weapon also helped, though it was just sprinkles to an already delicious cake. That was Dark Knights identity as a tank, the tank where you couldn't pick your nose during pull.

On top of the fact that the rework was lazy as heck, it feels as if there was almost no thought process with Delirium. Copy pasting an ability another job has does not make for a better experience. Fell cleave is a meme, a funny meme, but not one that DRK's needed. The new AOE rotation feels smoother, but is not as fun(or dangerous) as the Abyssal drain spam. The fact that you could mess up was part of the fun. If you hated the playstyle of Dark Knight you had options. But if you loved the playstyle of Dark Knight you have no more options when it comes to tanking.

[Quor]

LOL DRK has been an illusion all along. Even the lore is trying to tell us thats a pebble and not a real job stone.

You must be terrible at parties. And your reading comprehension sucks too.