Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

[Nedkel]

Surprisely they archive a good balance in terms of numbers in SB despite how different DRK works to the other tanks, or how balanced we are now despite GNB PLD and WAR having different and unique flows.

You don't really have an argument there specially since there is no experimenting, DRK flows already exist since 3.0, if they can't afford basic improvements to a already existing kit as they should they can't adds new jobs at all in the first place, GNB, DNC, SAM and RDM wouldn't see the light of the day and still here they are, and GNB is nothing like WAR or PLD at all so what is the excuse now?

You know I don't see they do the same with the DPS jobs the overpopulated role in the game, are you telling me they can afford diversity with 10 jobs and keep all of them relevant and fun, see the MCH and MNK rework keeping them unique and different to his counter parts but they can't do that with DRK? Betwen 4 jobs? Despite 3 of them being pretty different of each other excep one that has been gutted BCS reasons?

There is a difference of having basic or decent complexity and have cero complexity so a 3 years old kid could play it, and reducing complexity or adds quality of live stuff doesn't mean kill the flow of the job and copy paste one of the current ones as they did bcs they didn't care about the feedback.

Don't lie yourself, they didn't destroy DRK bcs they can't balance his kit since has been balanced in the past ad current DRK is still in the same place of SB.

Tanks were not balanced in SB, there was always the MT and OT issue, and in dungeons the differences and unbalance between tanks was gigantic
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...ps&class=Tanks
There were a ton of issues between tanks with Warrior and PLD having best single target dmg and best mitigation. At worst, DRK was doing 15% less single target damage than warrior.
The sustain between single and multi target was different between them too.

DPS jobs is a different story, because all what they have to do is to do damage and it is easier to balance than tank, which has to have some sort of sustain, have mitigation tools and damage skills and make them look and function different to each other but perform the same, this is a much harder job to do. So they decided to make tanks that way and not another.
Standard 1-2-3 combo, aoe combo, big deeps combo, range skill, dash, few deffensive CDs, Invulv skill, 1 party wide CD, thats it.

[Shurrikhan]

There were a ton of issues between tanks with Warrior and PLD having best single target dmg and best mitigation. At worst, DRK was doing 15% less single target damage than warrior.

This is flagrantly wrong. By late Stormblood, Paladin was consistently last (outside of Max parses in Final Omega), not Dark Knight. The gap between Paladin and Dark Knight was also greater than that between Warrior and Dark Knight. And even Warrior and Paladin performed within 4.5% of each other.

Dungeons had a large output spread, but that was it. Raids were pretty tightly balanced between all three tanks, with PLD still nearly as popular as Warrior at highest levels of play despite its lower output.

[shao32]

Tanks were not balanced in SB, there was always the MT and OT issue, and in dungeons the differences and unbalance between tanks was gigantic
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...ps&class=Tanks
There were a ton of issues between tanks with Warrior and PLD having best single target dmg and best mitigation. At worst, DRK was doing 15% less single target damage than warrior.
The sustain between single and multi target was different between them too.

DPS jobs is a different story, because all what they have to do is to do damage and it is easier to balance than tank, which has to have some sort of sustain, have mitigation tools and damage skills and make them look and function different to each other but perform the same, this is a much harder job to do. So they decided to make tanks that way and not another.
Standard 1-2-3 combo, aoe combo, big deeps combo, range skill, dash, few deffensive CDs, Invulv skill, 1 party wide CD, thats it.

DRK has second in dps and best personal mitigation after 4.3, DRK only suffer lack of utility compared to the other 2, the other balance issues was only holmgang and the excesive amount of utility on PLD, they personal rotations and flows have nothing to do there since all of them do they job perfectly, the who pull drama end this expansion with the rework of tank stances so even less reasons to gutted DRK.

i dissagre DPS jobs are harder to balance bcs it's not only they personal damage, it's they utility and how affect the other 7 members of a raid, balance that it's way harder to prevent meta combs being overkill compared to the several party compositions you can have in the game, mitigation? there is no problem the only problem with mitigation was when they put PLD as physical king and DRK the magic tank with still currently is more or less while WAR was universal mitigation all around and that have been solved, the self sustain is pretty balanced right now and the utility more or less too and all of this have nothing to do with the dps rotation of the job so what they do it's just pure laziness and make DRK extremly easy probably just for being the poster boy as much.

[Absimiliard]

DRK has second in dps

No. No it does not. DRK is third place in DPS if it has access to the correct party buffs. If lacking those buffs, it falls to dead last. GNB and PLD have a steady lead in the damage category.

[shao32]

No. No it does not. DRK is third place in DPS if it has access to the correct party buffs. If lacking those buffs, it falls to dead last. GNB and PLD have a steady lead in the damage category.

I was talking about SB, betwen 4.3 and the end of the expansion not now.

[Shurrikhan]

No. No it does not. DRK is third place in DPS if it has access to the correct party buffs. If lacking those buffs, it falls to dead last. GNB and PLD have a steady lead in the damage category.

She specifically labelled the period of time in discussion -- post-4.3 SB, not now. If you can't read the whole first 10 words...

[KrausBrave]

So, to walk into the chambers, I must say that DRK is currently a testament of terrible redesigns that currently make it the worst tank. If you think these changes are at any point, positive. You must not have put any sort of effort into it prior to the expansion.

HW, I played a bit of it, and enjoyed it. SB I was main the class so hard... so hard. I did EVERYTHING. On that class, savage, extremes, all of it as a DRK. And if I had one complaint about it, was Dark Mind was worthless and Living Dead was a walking disaster. And the fact that GNB is just Dark Arts... but better. Is painful. They could have just expanded on the idea of dark arts as a skill enhancer and it would have been fine.

Kept the skill speed on blood weapon (personally liked it myself), and gave it some epic lv80 single target uppercut blast wave thing like in the trailer that parted the clouds above. That could do either excessive amounts of damage or healing depending on if you DA it. And things would have been fine.

Dark arts should have been the focus. Give me options. More sustain, or Dps? Hell even have it so you can dark arts TBN that if it didn’t pop, you instead recovered that HP and gains 20 blood. BUT. To make it just a second rate warrior? THAT DOESN’T CRIT. Why play the class? It has little mitigation tools, LD is still LD. Dark Mind, I still refuse to put on my hot bar it’s so worthless. And it outshined by GNB and the king of tanks as of 5.05 Paladin. Truly, I wished they remove it and clump it up with dragoon or something as a medium armored dps... since making it a tank that actually doesn’t suck seems to allude square.

[Lyth]

Until recent latency from ISP conflicts with the SE servers since 5.05, GNB was smooth as butter to play and it's always been incredibly easy to keep track of everything. DRK just feels so lazy by comparison that it can get kinda easy to slip up at times.

I'm always fascinated by how people consistently re-frame events in a way that supports their desired self-image. It's not "I make mistakes on DRK because I'm struggling to keep track of things," it's "I lose track of things because I'm thinking much too quickly and DRK's slow pace lulls me into a sense of complacency." Uh-huh.

I think you've just stumbled over one of the hallmarks of a resource-based job vs. a rotation-based job, though. Rotations can be executed on auto-pilot with repetition and practice. Resource management demands your attention, even while you're doing new mechanics. You don't notice it as much in simple fights, but it becomes painfully obvious in ones with any degree of complexity or new mechanics.

[DJMau]

So, to walk into the chambers, I must say that DRK is currently a testament of terrible redesigns that currently make it the worst tank. If you think these changes are at any point, positive. You must not have put any sort of effort into it prior to the expansion.

HW, I played a bit of it, and enjoyed it. SB I was main the class so hard... so hard. I did EVERYTHING. On that class, savage, extremes, all of it as a DRK. And if I had one complaint about it, was Dark Mind was worthless and Living Dead was a walking disaster. And the fact that GNB is just Dark Arts... but better. Is painful. They could have just expanded on the idea of dark arts as a skill enhancer and it would have been fine.

Kept the skill speed on blood weapon (personally liked it myself), and gave it some epic lv80 single target uppercut blast wave thing like in the trailer that parted the clouds above. That could do either excessive amounts of damage or healing depending on if you DA it. And things would have been fine.

Dark arts should have been the focus. Give me options. More sustain, or Dps? Hell even have it so you can dark arts TBN that if it didn’t pop, you instead recovered that HP and gains 20 blood. BUT. To make it just a second rate warrior? THAT DOESN’T CRIT. Why play the class? It has little mitigation tools, LD is still LD. Dark Mind, I still refuse to put on my hot bar it’s so worthless. And it outshined by GNB and the king of tanks as of 5.05 Paladin. Truly, I wished they remove it and clump it up with dragoon or something as a medium armored dps... since making it a tank that actually doesn’t suck seems to allude square.

Question: How would you know anything about how to 'fix' DRK if you haven't even leveled it beyond 71?

[KrausBrave]

I have a guild with a lv80 DRK that I played on for a bit [wow... an aoe combo... i am missing out on SO much.] also reading gives a good indication of what’s to come. What am I really missing rotation wise? Unless Delirium suddenly changes bloodspiller and quietius [which it doesn’t] and the changes are only too flood and edge which are just potency buffs... again. What am I missing here? I played it for a second, made me wanna puke. And went to a better class that didn’t feel like crappy Warrior.