I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[Hash_Browns]

So a fail game design
high end fight that have healer dps into account, meaning dev cant output too much damage received by the party, making less challenge content healing become a green dps where we spend more than 50% of our time dps.
When healer DPS ppl say it is not using the full kit, now the dev just turn it into the other extend, we barely using our GCD heal in any non top tier fight

In the high end fights, making a mistake isn't going to get you healed - it's going to kill you or the party. Healing is only used for unavoidable damage in Savage content.

[MaraD_]

Yea, just NA players...smdh

bad habit of mine, meant western players.
corrected in the original post.
Granted i only seen how the JP players reacted vs english speakers, so western is just a vague representation at best.

[Hawklaser]

Which means healers have to contribute to damage when doing content at the minimum item level. The poster Hash_Browns was replying to was saying that DPS should “just git gud” so that healers aren’t required to DPS under some pretense that the healers are “carrying” the DPS and “picking up slack”—but that’s simply not feasible in early Savage before players get better gear. Everyone has to contribute because the party won’t make the enrage for the third and fourth fights otherwise at minimum item level. And that doesn’t mean that the healers are carrying anyone—it’s just straight up impossible without their contribution because DPS jobs aren’t powerful enough even at 100% optimized.

I'm not talking about DF PUG crap where we all realize the Black Mage has been spamming B1, and nothing else. I'm talking about the savage content.
If you want to rag, and kick all the horrible DPS in the normal mode content, be my guest, because I certainly hate dealing with tanks that don't use cooldowns, DPS that don't AOE - or have a rotation at level 80, and also healers that don't DPS.

Like it or not - healers need to DPS for the endgame content.

Maybe Kazrah, the one you two were replying to initially doesn't understand the difference or want to make the distinction between bleeding edge where healer dps is required, and any place where we actually meet the gear requirements for the content where healer dps should not be a factor. A lot of those claiming healers should never DPS seem to not want to make the distinction between the bleeding edge content and everything else, ignoring that the devs did mention healer dps is needed to be able to clear content when it is bleeding edge.

But the reason I say "Get Gud" still applies is because if they start tuning everything so a competent bleeding edge Savage+ healer has to do nothing but heal, one of two things is likely to happen, an overall nerf to content due to lower overall DPS check requirements, or potential shortage of healers/increase of prima donna healers as they now dictate if a run is pass/fail. And that design is unlikely to just stay at the savage tiers, it will influence all tiers. And more often the ones complaining about healers DPSing, are also those struggling to clear DF PUG content. Which is where I think there would be even more issues if healers were forced to just heal all the time for everything, if you still had any healers that didn't have a major ego after the fact of knowing they now fully dictated the pace of the group.

[Raven2014]

The challenge I think devs are facing here is that they want healer damage as an option, but not a requirement. The problem is that players make it a requirement to compensate for how bad their DPS is.

That's what the "bad" healers want to believe.

Even if you ignore the context of what the Dev wants, it simply comes down to "contribution" to the group.

- Early clears: even if you put all the top DPS and tanks together in the same group, that still won't be enough for a week 1 or week 2 clears when people don't have the gears for it if the healers don't contribute. If you don't want to DPS as a healer, then wait until a month or hell, echo where you may at least have some basic for your statement. But if you want your week 1 clear, then you must contribute, it has nothing to do with other people being bad.

- Late clear: and even if you had waited long enough for healer DPS no longer a factor. And also, from your words I assume you want your DPS to play perfectly ... then guess what, most fight in this game is designed in a way that if your party truly perform optimically, there is "very little" healing to do. So what, at that point, you don't DPS, you also don't have to heal, the question become: what exactly are you contributing to the group, or are just there to receive a free carry because you're a healer? If you already don't contribute when the party play badly, it just means you'll contribute even less if they party plays well.

Also, it's a human balance psychology things. Imagine if you live with 7 other peoples who hold each others equal, and technically only 4 of you have to work to get enough food for all 8. Do you think the group gonna last long if the other 4 just adopt a mindset of "well, if the other 4 works hard enough there is enough food for all of us, so I don't have to work for food" ? Saying "healer DPS shouldn't be necessary for clear" is the same-thing, it maybe, it maybe not, but the point is equal contribution.

[Misutoraru]

In the high end fights, making a mistake isn't going to get you healed - it's going to kill you or the party. Healing is only used for unavoidable damage in Savage content.

then i think the game design have some fundamental issue
shouldn't a healer there to make room for player making mistake, not a lot and not the serious one of cause
but if Healer is only needed in those raid wide damage, arent it a bit boring, just like playing a rhythm game, you memorize the whole fight, and push the right button at the right time, zero dynamic

[Raven2014]

then i think the game design have some fundamental issue
shouldn't a healer there to make room for player making mistake, not a lot and not the serious one of cause
but if Healer is only needed in those raid wide damage, arent it a bit boring, just like playing a rhythm game, you memorize the whole fight, and push the right button at the right time, zero dynamic

Or you know ... just accept the fact that the design of this game is different than other MMO? It's not a flaw because you don't like, it's not a flaw because "other MMO doesn't do it this way!".

I for once love this design philosophy. It requires people to be mindful of things outside of their role, instead of being just a single-minded job.

[Hash_Browns]

then i think the game design have some fundamental issue
shouldn't a healer there to make room for player making mistake, not a lot and not the serious one of cause
but if Healer is only needed in those raid wide damage, arent it a bit boring, just like playing a rhythm game, you memorize the whole fight, and push the right button at the right time, zero dynamic

All fights in FFXIV are scripted.
All bosses will throw out mechanics in the exact same order, with the only exception being enrage timers triggering early due to slow add kills

[Selova]

It kind of amazes me how many people insist on stubbornly adhering to archaic rules in regards to class roles under the premise that because a healer isn't expected to deal damage in other games that the same rule applies here.

I realize this is a hard concept to grasp for a lot of people but not every game is the same. I dont care what content you do, sitting around doing nothing because you are waiting to perform the primary function of your job is unacceptable.


Any healer, regardless of the level of content they are doing that just sits there waiting to heal is hindering every group they are in. They are wasting everyone's time because all because they are insistent on being chained down to these arbitrary rules of "defined" class roles from other games.


This has nothing to do with dps needing "to git gud" and everything to do with lazy healers being detriments to groups they are in because they somehow think that as long as everyone is alive that they are doing their job.


Stop binding yourself to these silly rules of "Healers should only heal" adapt to how things are different here, you'll be thankful in the long run.

[Nihility]

if they want healers to focus only on healing they need to not give every healer a million ways to heal off global cooldown
i do most content on scholar never using a basic healing spell... ever

[Wilford111]

Rarely see healers that don't dps. On the contrary getting some to cast an actual heal spell can be something. Threads like this are a big to do about nothing really in my opinion.

Actually now that I'm leveling my DPS and tanks, I've been seeing more and more healers spamming Cure 1 even when the healing isn't needed. I suppose it's because of the huge influx of new players we've been getting. I wonder if there's a way to solve this without saying something they would consider "toxic".