Their heart was in the right place with AST.

[TankHunter678]

No. I wasn't one of those people. I preferred to actually use the full range of the card system, which is exactly why I hate that the flavor is gone. You're literally just disagreeing with me and then restating the same thing I said differently and somehow as a counter argument. The "flow" that you described isn't a flow. It's sour grapes over your unique buffs being gone. Well same. Imagine the current way you can toss out cards all over, only they're all the unique buffs we're used to.

I prefer the way the job plays now in terms of flow, because you're actively throwing out more buffs. That's supposed to be the primary identity of the job, a buffer. It's just that our buffs now are all the same buff...which is SO LAME.

The thing is you could throw out as many buffs now as you could before. Nothing about the draw rate actually changed except for sleeve draw being reworked. What changed is we lost the ability to modify cards, extend their effects, and they got homogenized to one effect.

You could choose to use Royal Road to improve future buffs, but it was not required. Especially since you could put a card in spread and save trying to use royal road till the opportunity presented itself. Allowing you to throw out as many card buffs as you wanted. If you did not that was part of your thought processes behind your use of the cards.

The class is not throwing out more buffs, the class is throwing out worse homogenized buffs. It is trying to build up to a party buff that is weak without you using sleeve draw to throw more damage buff on top of it which disrupts the flow.

[SakiKojiro]

The thing is you could throw out as many buffs now as you could before. Nothing about the draw rate actually changed except for sleeve draw being reworked. What changed is we lost the ability to modify cards, extend their effects, and they got homogenized to one effect.

You could choose to use Royal Road to improve future buffs, but it was not required. Especially since you could put a card in spread and save trying to use royal road till the opportunity presented itself. Allowing you to throw out as many card buffs as you wanted. If you did not that was part of your thought processes behind your use of the cards.

The class is not throwing out more buffs, the class is throwing out worse homogenized buffs. It is trying to build up to a party buff that is weak without you using sleeve draw to throw more damage buff on top of it which disrupts the flow.

Yeah, except Royal road was actually a loss in overall rDPS except when used for an expanded, because a 50% bonus is just losing you like half potency. Every time, without argue. I still really liked the effect of buffing my next card, but unless it doubled the power of the next card, you're losing potency. SE would have never allowed that. Could you imagine a 40% DPS buff on an ally? There'd be chaos in the streets. If RR still existed, you'd still always be expected to fish for an expanded SOMETHING just because of that. I prefer this world in which RR is gone, and every so many cards doesn't get eaten to power up the next card.

Also I seriously don't see the problem so many people have with sleeve draw. You aren't forced to use the card right away and GO GO GO. It's just like, 3 free buffs to help you fish for seals and/or get out a whole bunch of buffs. If you already have all your seals, it's an absolute win in which you just throw out 3 buffs without having to think too hard about it. Now imagine again...if these were the old buffs...

Current AST does need a QOL change, though. We should be able to get seals out of combat. It's so god damn annoying to be forced to throw out a heal or damage spell in dungeon before throwing out my card to make sure I get the seal. Like, I get why they did it, but it's unnecessary complication.

[KanameYuuki]

Imagine the current system, only the old buffs, and minor arcana now just makes your currently drawn buff stronger kind of like a mini royal road, and not overwrite your seals.

I used to believe this new system with the old cards would make it better but I don't think that anymore, the more I reminiscence about the previous system it makes me hate more and more why SE would even do it, I will give you that it has a "better flow" but let's compare decision making and engagement from old and the new one.

Nu AST
-Draw Card, check color, check seal, Do I need said seal? Redraw, play if got something good, otherwise minor arcana it or if 3 seals done, repeat until the end of days.

Old AST
-Draw, if first card check if RR for next or Spread if empty to make sure cool down on Draw starts asap, decide who is better target for said buff is it a good moment to TD it? CO up do I delay for Lucid maybe wait for 2 single target cards or a full party card? - should I delay Spread RR Balance / Arrow / Spear for next cooldowns of party?, etc.

It feels like it flows better because there is no substance to it, the nuance and engagement of Old AST was insane, we were the ones only having 1 Single target spell, DoT and Aoe and you know what? not even once I felt like I needed anything else while healing unlike now.


Before you would Malefic while you were waiting and playing with your cards.

Now cards are something to do in between your Malefic spam.


I know fun is subjective but I remember someone once said that Fun = Decisions / Time (Unfortunately I can't recall who said it), and I get none of that from Nu AST.

[TankHunter678]

Yeah, except Royal road was actually a loss in overall rDPS except when used for an expanded, because a 50% bonus is just losing you like half potency. Every time, without argue. I still really liked the effect of buffing my next card, but unless it doubled the power of the next card, you're losing potency. SE would have never allowed that. Could you imagine a 40% DPS buff on an ally? There'd be chaos in the streets. If RR still existed, you'd still always be expected to fish for an expanded SOMETHING just because of that. I prefer this world in which RR is gone, and every so many cards doesn't get eaten to power up the next card.

Also I seriously don't see the problem so many people have with sleeve draw. You aren't forced to use the card right away and GO GO GO. It's just like, 3 free buffs to help you fish for seals and/or get out a whole bunch of buffs. If you already have all your seals, it's an absolute win in which you just throw out 3 buffs without having to think too hard about it. Now imagine again...if these were the old buffs...

Current AST does need a QOL change, though. We should be able to get seals out of combat. It's so god damn annoying to be forced to throw out a heal or damage spell in dungeon before throwing out my card to make sure I get the seal. Like, I get why they did it, but it's unnecessary complication.

If you did not like using expanded then you could have gone for an extended or enhanced. Which where both useful especially in 4 man dungeons or 24 man raids depending on the situation. A enhanced Bole will take the heat out of the horde of mobs smashing on your wall to wall tank, it will also take a big chunk out of a TB being dumped on the tank reducing your healing needs. Extended arrow on a BLM and they will love how much you boost their output. Extended Ewer is also great for putting on your co-healer after they just got back up since it will refill their MP completely.

The fishing for AoE balance was something savage optimizers did and was not a requirement for all the rest of the content you played more then once a week.

The problem with sleeve draw is that it needs to be used in your divination windows which last 15 seconds. So you are on the clock to GO GO GO SPAM SPAM SPAM the cards out as FAST FAST FAST as possible. Otherwise it is a waste. If you use it just to get seals... then you pretty much just reduce yourself to even more mindless minor arcanas.

[SakiKojiro]

If you did not like using expanded then you could have gone for an extended or enhanced. Which where both useful especially in 4 man dungeons or 24 man raids depending on the situation. A enhanced Bole will take the heat out of the horde of mobs smashing on your wall to wall tank, it will also take a big chunk out of a TB being dumped on the tank reducing your healing needs. Extended arrow on a BLM and they will love how much you boost their output. Extended Ewer is also great for putting on your co-healer after they just got back up since it will refill their MP completely.

The fishing for AoE balance was something savage optimizers did and was not a requirement for all the rest of the content you played more then once a week.

The problem with sleeve draw is that it needs to be used in your divination windows which last 15 seconds. So you are on the clock to GO GO GO SPAM SPAM SPAM the cards out as FAST FAST FAST as possible. Otherwise it is a waste. If you use it just to get seals... then you pretty much just reduce yourself to even more mindless minor arcanas.

Okay, again, the issue with that is if you literally do any math at all you realize doing anything but expanded is dumb. Did I still do it? Yeah? Did I have people ask me why I'm not using expanded when I should be? Yeah.

Your options are lose a card and get 50% extra potency on next one, effectively using 2 cards for 150% potency. Meaning a net loss of 50% potency. Meanwhile expanded halved the effectiveness of your next card, but spread it over 4-8 people. In a group of 8 people that's 50% potency x 8 people. that's 400% potency..... It's not even a "min-max" thing. That's a MASSIVE difference.

It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that 400% potency in 2 cards vs 150% potency in 2 cards is a *little* better. With our current card manipulation abilities, this issue would never arise. You can always do what's most effective on a single target, then they could rework minor arcana to be something of a royal road that doesn't eat your card, and it'd be great. Giving up a seal to buff your card, rewarding you for filling up on seals.

[Ubbernaut]

Let's be honest about this. The new actual FLOW of the job is better. It feels better to have more cards to throw. You feel more impactful, and being able to throw the cards onto who you want instead of always fishing for AoE balance feels GREAT.

I could not disagree with you more.

Impact? What impact? A +3/6% buff is not impactful in any way shape or form. That's the biggest issue. If the cards actually had potent effects to them then maybe I could find the loss of the card flavor more bearable. As is now, its 0 impact and I get by just not thinking about how little I'm actually doing.

Even worse, our 'Big' payoff is 4/5/6% damage buff for 15 seconds. Going by GCD that's 5 abilities. Let that sink in, you work for so long just to give 5 of your ally abilities +6% dmg (ideally) (edit: FOOD gives them for pity sakes, for one hour!)

ps. The big 'choices' or 'blunders' are literally a 1% dmg loss on your Divination... Apologies, I'm just extra upset about these changes still.

[KanameYuuki]

We went from:


You have the pieces, make them work.

to:


Match the shape (seal) and color.

[Gemina]

We went from:


You have the pieces, make them work.

to:


Match the shape (seal) and color.

And this is bad because? Simplification seems to be demonized around here. It isn't always a bad thing. I would actually probably agree if an assembly puzzle allowed you to take a piece your grabbed, and change it to the piece you need via a RR, Spread or Minor Arcana. That is something I strongly disliked about the old mechanic that has also bleed over into the new one, and it's that we are not forced to play the card we are dealt.

I am fine with the seals system. I am ok that all cards buff DPS. I am not ok that the cards do not buff the AST in anyway with the exception of a DMG boost that likely should be used on another player. Each of those six cards should provide the AST with some kind of powerup, and these can be a myriad of possibilities. I've brought up aetherial spikes that deliver damage if the AST is struck; increased movement speed, def/mdef^, haste, among others. Point being they buff they AST and nobody else with the exception of that initial DMG boost to the player.

I feel this would not only give AST mains back that element of feeling each card's impact, it will also actually give them a choice unlike both iterations of this mechanic.

On a last note, I will always be troubled by Divination so long as the devs continue to not see that the odds are the exact same for getting three of one seal as they are getting one of each. There is basically two outcomes as of right now because no one will intentionally give themselves 3 of the same seal unless the system was changed into something I suggested above.

[TankHunter678]

And this is bad because? Simplification seems to be demonized around here. It isn't always a bad thing. I would actually probably agree if an assembly puzzle allowed you to take a piece your grabbed, and change it to the piece you need via a RR, Spread or Minor Arcana. That is something I strongly disliked about the old mechanic that has also bleed over into the new one, and it's that we are not forced to play the card we are dealt.

When the entire rest of the class is highly simple outside of the 1 core system that separates the class from all the rest then simplifying the core system is really really bad. It kills engagement in the class. Especially when you can take that entire simplified core system and replace it with 3 buttons and achieve the same effect for considerably less effort, even better optimization, and even better flow, without any loss in what little engagement is left it really shows how bad the simplification is.

I mean it, the cards are un-engaging and all do the same thing so you could just remove the cards entirely and reduce it to a "draw" giving a 15 sec 6% ST damage buff on a 30 sec cooldown button. Divination becomes a 15 sec 6% party damage buff on a 120 sec cooldown. "Sleeve draw" causes the "draw" button to reset and gain 2 additional charges. No need for minor arcana, because that was just so you did not overwrite seals, no need for seals because they exists to keep the card count, no need for the melee/range split because just like with the seals it only existed to keep the card count.

Could have even kept the same animations and nothing would change. Other then less frustration.

Oh and if the cards only actually buffed AST then its pointless. AST is meant to buff everyone, to change the fates of those they can. Not just help themselves. The cards need to have impact for whoever AST places the card upon.

[SakiKojiro]

I could not disagree with you more.

Impact? What impact? A +3/6% buff is not impactful in any way shape or form. That's the biggest issue. If the cards actually had potent effects to them then maybe I could find the loss of the card flavor more bearable. As is now, its 0 impact and I get by just not thinking about how little I'm actually doing.

Even worse, our 'Big' payoff is 4/5/6% damage buff for 15 seconds. Going by GCD that's 5 abilities. Let that sink in, you work for so long just to give 5 of your ally abilities +6% dmg (ideally) (edit: FOOD gives them for pity sakes, for one hour!)

ps. The big 'choices' or 'blunders' are literally a 1% dmg loss on your Divination... Apologies, I'm just extra upset about these changes still.

Oh, If we're talking about the PATCH changes they just made, I completely agree. They just simplified the job even more. It felt almost like "Oh, they just hate AST because it's still too hard, let's make it even easier for the widdle babies" I hate what they did with that.