Does the community ever have a constructive conversation about RMT?

[Wyldkat99]

RMT exists because people are lazy, full stop.

I have all but CUL to 80 and those that are at 80 are geared and melded to 2 Star Ability. It took me 2 weeks and 0 Gil to get there, and that was me taking it casually. Most of the Hard Core crafters had all or most of their Crafting jobs at 80 a day after ShB launched.

You can make 100k gil a week from the challenge log alone, probably about the same amount from retainer ventures not counting any loot they bring back you can sell. Leves grant decent amounts of gil especially when you turn in HQ items. Dungeon Roulettes grand tons of gil, more if you do a role in need.
Materia nearly falls into your lap in dungeons over 60 and yet they still sell for decent amounts on most servers.

It's very easy to make Money in this game, but you have to be willing to put in the minimum effort.

[JohnnyDevo]

Gil is required in this game for precisely nothing except teleporting and repairs.

Everything else is provided to you in ways you can get without playing the marketboard game.

Want an easy way to do everything for free?

Google teamcraft and garlond tools. Learn teamcrafts' features and tinker with the simulator to get the most HQ out of each item you procure the materials for. Do this while levelling and it'll become second nature to tinker with crafting macros when they become relevant to you at the end-game front. Learn garlond tools' interface to assemble lists of items you wish to craft, and it will tell you what you need, in what quantity, and where to get it.

Thus armed with your tools of automation, begin crafting. Set up netflix on your other moniter when you have free time, and craft away. Getting more quality on your items means more exp, means more milage on your materials. Getting HQ means you can sell it for more, and you're already making money. You can usually get away with vendor-only materials up until level 20 or 30 for each crafter class.

But what happens when you start needing materials that you can't buy from npc vendors? You gather them. It's that easy! Start whacking some nodes. I won't lie, for gatherers, the road to 50 is super annoying. But this is why you're doing it partway. You have crafters levelled now, and that means you can make your gear as you level your gatherers. Once your gatherers are caught up, you can start gathering the raw materials to fuel your crafter levelling. Gathering these materials gets you exp on your crafters, costs you nothing, and you profit from the processed materials. Crafting your gear gets you exp for your crafters, and costs you nothing.

Level everything in tandem, and it will be not only free, but both profitable and faster in the long run.

Now, you're level 50 in all your crafter and gatherer classes. Congratulations, you've gotten past the hardest part. Now you can get into collectables. I won't go into detail because there's a lot of random stuff out there to craft as collectables, but there's guides for each expansion. Gatherers become incredibly easy to level at this point, which in turn makes it much easier for them to fuel your crafting rampage.

All the while you're doing this, you're spending no gil, and you can easily be making money by selling excess. People just don't do it because they either don't know how, or don't care to.

I personally sit on 30-50 mil. I'm very lazy with my crafting, and I end up making only enough random stuff at the start of an expansion to allow myself to be lazy and buy everything else I want or need. If I really wanted to it wouldn't be an issue to sit on gil cap, but honestly I see no reason to have so much money. I can gather everything else in the game I want for myself, and getting to a billion gil is too much of a bother for no benefit.

[TwistedTea]

How long did it take for you to level all your crafters and how much money across all 7 did it cost in total, if that exceeds what a average player can make in the entire story line and
60 days of casual saving, that is the exact problem I am talking about. It cost time to level all the crafters to get to the point of "I dont spend gil on anything" at 2 hours a night 4 days a week that's literally like a year minimum.

I leveled all my crafters and BTN/MIN in a period of about 4 months because I took it leisurely and didn't bother to level them daily. Leveled them through:

1. Beast Tribes

2. GC Turn-ins

3. Collectables

4. Custom Deliveries

5. Levequests

6. Grinding out low level recipes with exp buffs/manuals which we get for free from doing the quests.

Spent about 10 - 12 million because there were times, I got impatient and bought some of the GC turn-ins or the mats for the Collectables, off the Market Board but:

Even a level 15 crafter can make about 2 million gil a week and a level 30 - 35 BTN/MIN can also make around that same amount.

With the changes to crafters and cross-class skills with SHB, it's even more viable not to be an omni-crafter.

Many times, when the topic of 'casual' players comes up, one of the definitions is how long a casual player can play daily/weekly.

I think, 2 hours a day for 4 days clearly falls under 'casual' play for an MMORPG.

The problem I'm seeing here, is that you expect the MSQ to give a significant amount of gil and it already does.

Not to mention, if you're on a preferred world, you get a million gil, upon hitting level 30 on any class.

There are many in which the game throws gil at us. Just to name a few:

1. Roulettes with Adventurer in Need bonuses
2. Challenge logs
3. Doman Enclave
4. Treasure Maps

If a new player is still not able to make gil, that's on them.

[RareItems]

RMT is done thru discord now. They sell Savage Raid/Ex Clear for paypal transfers. Open up the Party finder and you will find it on the top page lol.

[SamSmoot]

There are a lot of things they could do to curb the RMT, but they seem convinced that weekly ban waves are somehow sufficient despite the fact that the bots are scripted to create replacement accounts literally the instant they get banned.

One possible way: If 50 or more players report a chat post that contains something like: "Cheap & easy gil from xxyy.com", automatically block every post that contains that same string. The spammers will then have to figure out what bit of text is getting them blocked, change it, only to get blocked again for the new text. They'll eventually run out of ways to say what they need to say.

[Vnolan]

They should just legalize RMT officially. Most know it's already allowed as long as you don't admit to it in chat. Making it legal would drop prices and it would allow buyers to pay real money to content sellers instead of having to buy large sums of gil from the bot companies. There would be incentive to use bots to generate gil to sell for money, but this is already done with no consequences, so SE must not have any problems with it.

Botting aside, why does it matter if two people agree to exchange money for gil or services?

[WaterShield]

Accounts aren't free. SE gets paid for each replacement. A fix stops that money flow.

The only way to actually fix this is to make the fix more lucrative than not fixing it to SE.

With fake / stolen credit cards that get charged back... they get nothing from RMT.

[Keddera_StormMoon]

Overpriced items on the marketboard have nothing to do with RMT. But RMT has everything to do with with people's impatience and greed and sense of entitlement as evidenced in what you see in posts above.

You could drop the prices of everything on that marketboard and the demand for RMT will still be there simply because of people's impatience and need for instant gratification.

There is no real way to combat this effectively except do the one thing that many western gamers balk against - and that's if the dev becomes the distributer of RMT.

It's sucks, but that's the naked truth. The only way to be rid of these 3rd party RMT's is if the dev themselves sell the services themselves thus severely cutting into any potential profits anybody else could have.

[ThunderGodThor]

How long did it take for you to level all your crafters and how much money across all 7 did it cost in total

Same amount of time as everyone else who worked hard at maxing their crafters. Almost nothing- you can gather stuff yourself and turn a solid profit on the side by selling excess to people who didn't bother with their own mats/gear.

if that exceeds what a average player can make in the entire story line and 60 days of casual saving, that is the exact problem I am talking about. It cost time to level all the crafters to get to the point of "I dont spend gil on anything" at 2 hours a night 4 days a week that's literally like a year minimum.

So get to work then- should be at max before next expansion just doing a few daily leves, beast tribes + GC turn ins. I do find it kind of odd how you feel entitled to the fruits of our labor though- am I entitled to savage gear even though I don't put in the effort to actually do it at the moment? Obviously not.

Remember, you don't pay for the item alone, you also pay for the time and effort it took us to be in a position to actually make the item.

[Vnolan]

"Most know it's already allowed as long as you don't admit to it in chat."

That's like you saying murder is legal so long as you don't get caught. Try again.

No, players have already been caught doing it but they haven't said they're doing it using in-game logs. Not even talking about content sellers and discord, but twitch streamers linking their stream which includes RMT. At this point I'm wondering why we haven't seen gil-selling bots advertise in the PF since it should be allowed if the others are.

1. There is no rule against transferring large sums of gil
2. SE cannot monitor outside communications

RMT is legal and will continue to be legal until PF advertising is prohibited in some manner. There are no two ways about it.