Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[Sequora]

We really have too many systems. BLM and RDM flow nicely. RDM while being simple makes sense. You go back and forth between black and white magic filling up your gauge and then do a melee combo with a few oGCDs.

BLM has been being built upon since 2.0, and while being very different in 5.0, is also a lot of the same. Fire spells deal damage, swap to ice for MP. They have a DoT to keep track of. Every expansion have either further expanded upon this, or been tools to help them with their weakness which was mobility.

SMN has a lot going on. In 3.0, I really liked the changes, but they added a new system with dreadwyrm Aether. In 4.0 they’ve expanded upon this, and made dreadwyrm Aether even more important. In 5.0 they tried to fix the long rotation by adding FBT. They also added the egi assaults which we now have to use to get our ruin IV procs. This is yet another system layered on top of everything else. They’ve doubled down on DoTs this expansion as well by making them impact ruin damage.

I think a lot feels good, and I think they can fix most of our glaring issues.

[Dracian]

I think I've determined that I'm just not going to play SMN much on odd numbered expansions. SMN was my first job to 50 during 2.X. In 3.X I really wasn't enjoying the changes and focused on BLM. in 4.X I fell in love with SMN about midway through the expansion again and was excited for 5.X. Now in 5.X I'm really not enjoying the job and went to RDM for my main caster.

On paper SMN should be awesome. It has Bahamut, Phoenix, Bane is now pretty much free and always available. But playing it just feels like such a chore compared to BLM/RDM, for no gain whatsoever.

[Gallus]

I just don't understand why they always make SMN so complex and convoluted... just when you think it cannot get worse.

[NovaBismarck]

I also agree that the smn changes sounded good on paper. When I heard about them without playing the class I thought it had potential. I honestly hope the rotation changes. It's rigid and inflexible and overly busy. I hate the inflexibility worst of all. I'd be happy if they focus on bahamut and phx with adequate mobility, probably increase pet AA slightly (if other damage factors aren't fixed instead), fix dots or dot and ruin potency loss. It's very annoying when dots go do by no fault of your own and you lose a lot of potency. Egi abilities and R4 procs from them overall don't feel great. At least one thing needs to be dropped or pruned back from the rotation, I still say there's one too many things to track.

There are some nice things about the class, but the glaring issues make it so clunky to play that I honestly grumble through most of my rotation. Every time a tank stops but then decides to take off running to more mobs, there go my dots and a lot of potency. When I have extra r4 procs to spend and then it through my dots off and I am stuck without ticks, I grumble. I agree, this class feels like a chore. It's not fun to me and I just want it fixed ASAP.

[Exodus-E]

Ifrit
We keep the autos although they do need a buff currently
We keep crimson cyclone but make it have a lower cooldown
we replace flaming crush (that's the aoe i checked) with a gap closer that does the same damage as crimson cyclone with a bit bigger cooldown than it
Enkindle deals double the dmg on the first enemy
Devotion changes to 10% physical dmg to all allies

Minor nitpick here, but given that (most) Egi attacks mirror their original Primal ones, then Crimson Cyclone should be the "gap closer" instead.
Other than that, those are some solid ideas.

[xicious]

I'd be insanely happy with having contaigon back on Garuda as her enkindle, this would also encourage pet swapping since we can contaigon before burst then go back to ifrit. They can even take it further and have us be able to use egi attacks outside of battle making titan somewhat useful pre pull. So that and some potency changes would streamline things and make us relevant again.

[Dyvid]

The changes for SMN were basically non-existant. I have to admit, I found the increased APM incredibly annoying over playing for a long period of time (progression). I'm hoping for some significant changes to jobs to come in 5.1. The fact that devotion lines up whilst we have Phoenix summoned is incredibly annoying as you are forced to delay your burst so you can use your buff. Not sure why it is acceptable that you cannot use your devotion buff for 40 seconds out of 2 minutes every 2 minutes. I'm not aware of any other job with a lockout like this. The dots in particular were annoying for the final fight with regards to the healer jails as they had that awkward death time of being in that period where double dotting them felt bad (though you could bane off the boss for one of them)

I'm still in the camp of getting Aetherflow pre-pull and having it linked to our cycle - I'm grateful that tri-disaster and bio are instant but these are changes that should LONG have occured. If Scholar can get Energy Drain back I have hope that we can get our Aetherflow back especially when pre-pull waits still exist for other jobs (surprised other jobs did not get the "cannot be used out of combat" treatment)

I'm just hoping for a better flow for the rotation going forward from 5.1

I agree that Devotion needs to be 120s rotation so it lines up better. 5.05 weren't job changing but rather QoL and common sense change (3s recast should have been at launch). If SE does reverse on the pre pull buffing then yea, AF back, but I'm not going to suggest changes toward that. I agree we need something to build up to Demi since that is our rotation backbone. Trance are a relic from 3.0 and in my opinion should have never been added in the first place. Demi-Phoenix is the best example on how Demi phase be and Demi-Bahamut should be change into that model. To that end and with thoughts in mind:

• Energy drain/siphon (should we just combine them?) has max of 2 charges and Aetherflow Gauge stacks up to four rather than two. This should provide flexibility to the player without punishing them.

• Aetherflow builds up the Trance gauge with 4 unlocking Trance.

• Egi Assault will use Aetherflow stacks as it's resource. It will no longer grant Ruin IV. Egi Damage will now be based off of the Summoners spell damage modifiers so we all know what is what. SE can adjust potency only after that is fixed.

• Dreadwyrm Trance will change Ruin III to Ruin IV and Outburst to Painflare. At 70 DWT will summon Demi-Bahamut.

• Deathflare will be remove and it's damage will be added to Enkindle. Enkindle recast would be changed to 60s.

• Fester is going to be a 20s recast timer attack. Maybe add something where is extends DoTs or ruination.

• Add a gap close to Crimson Cyclone and change Flaming Crush to single target with DoT. Add pushback and slow to Mountain Buster.

[Gallus]

I'd be insanely happy with having contaigon back on Garuda as her enkindle, this would also encourage pet swapping since we can contaigon before burst then go back to ifrit. They can even take it further and have us be able to use egi attacks outside of battle making titan somewhat useful pre pull. So that and some potency changes would streamline things and make us relevant again.

You want to make SMN even more complicated than it already is...? T_T

[xicious]

It would just be nice to have a use for the other pets. Yeah I'm not a huge fan of adding more buttons but if it means more deeps than I'm in, it sucks being so weak for such an intricate rotation at least some potency would justify it. There's a whole slew of other issues I'd like to see adjusted or at least officially acknowledged by SE.

[HeulGDarian]

.

the problem isnt the high apm nor the complexity . the problem is that not only is it rigid and unrewarding it is also unreasonable. having cooldowns overlap when they shouldn't and cooldowns that Don't come out of cooldown when they should.

Personally i like the complexity and freedom the job provided in 4.1 and after we lost so much (freedom of movement ,the old bahamut feel, utility, titan tanking for us , gameplay that rewarded player decision making) i don't want to lose anything else.I Want balance without more compromised butchering.