Samurai's 5.05 "Hagakure" Dead on Arrival

[Daralii]

Sorry I may be missing something. Why would you *want* to clear your sens? Why would you not hold them for the burst upon re-engage?

Depends entirely on how much Kenki you have when the boss returns, how many Sen you have at the time, if you'll be able to reapply Higanbana before your buffs expire, etc. For all I know, the extra ticks you'd get are worth more than a Midare Setsugekka upon reengaging the boss.

[Letz]

I'm super glad this neat tool is back and giving barely any kenki. Optimal or not, I never liked Shinten spam and was never a spammer. In 4.0 it is always a tool for me to refill some kenki for emergency. Ikishoten is still there if you want to be a shinten spammer.

Some of you act the stupidest way as if hakagure is back and you must change the way you play or else. Just don't use it if there's no purpose for you.

Oh and to the other side, Hakagure was never a hindrance to SAM's kit from start. Nobody was forced to be a shinten spammer. If you want to blame the hakagure nightmare in 4.0, blame yourself for playing that way.

The issue people have here is that Hagakure is not much of a dps increase as the skill was in 4.0, and that it isn't worth using as a regular part of the rotation. Yes, 4.0 hagakure came with shinten spamming, but we aren't really interested in whether or not you personally liked to use shinten. You yourself acknowledge that you don't make your decisions on how to play based on what is optimal. But, those of us that are interested in playing the class optimally would like to have tools in our toolkit that are worth using from a dps standpoint, and we are happy to change our rotations based on what is optimal. And you're criticizing people for wanting to increase their dps?

It's fine if you personally aren't interested in doing the most damage you can. Play how you want to play, have fun at the end of the day. But recognize that you should probably stay out of conversations like this. Because people are upset that Hagakure does not increase SAM's dps compared to DRG and MNK. This has nothing to do with shinten spamming specifically. This has to do with SE adding in a skill that is barely useful, but doesn't increase SAM's overall dps – aka a conversation for the people that will choose to play optimally.

And "just don't use it if there's no purpose for you" is kind of bad advice. Again, people wanted useful hagakure back, when it gave 20 kenki per sen. Whether you personally liked it that way doesn't matter. It doesn't change how objectively useful the ability is now, and that's what people are discussing.

If you're the kind of person who isn't interested in playing optimally (since hagakure -> shinten was optimal in 4.0), then why are you making yourself part of a conversation where people are discussing optimal play?

[Miziliti]

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Because I'm tired of seeing people complaining for the sake of complaining while rest of the world has no problem. Hakagure is only back as an addition to 5.0 SAM because many SAM players wanted it's function. Then there's people who's sole reason to dislike SAM is because they forced themselves to play the so called "optimal rotation". If you want to discuss "optimal play" this thread is probably one of the worst choice.

[Kabooa]

If you're the kind of person who isn't interested in playing optimally (since hagakure -> shinten was optimal in 4.0), then why are you making yourself part of a conversation where people are discussing optimal play?

The game needs more situational tools.

Old Hagakure wasn't a situational tool.

This Hagakure is.

[Drayos]

Would u guys recommend SAM for savage content after latest changes?

with how strong Monk and Dragoon are? No.

If ur enjoying SAM should u Not play SAM? no.

Play what u love, it'll all have ups and downs.

[JisKing98]

Can we just get rid of shoha? Seriously have yet to find a use for it so far outside of using it on a training dummy.

[Ryaz]

Everyone talking about Hagakure and how it was a DPS increase over using Midare... which is true in SB. Ikishoten should provide bigger DPS than Hagakure did, though, because it's a free 50 Kenki that allows you to still Midare.

The only issue is that the rotation becomes much less flexible so we can't take whatever sks we like and call it a day. Yes, it kinda sucks, but it's not like people can't adapt. I've done it, though I do feel certain parts are now awkward. Having to hold off on Meikyo now to make sure it lines up with Tsubame has been a change. The awkward pause after Tsubame has made me realize I need to make sure I save some Kenki for a Shinten or try to sneak a tick of Meditate in there if the gods are willing.

I'm fine with new Hagakure just being a Sen clear. It's useful for dungeons and phase transitions so you can have a clean start and not worry about overlapping Sen.

As for Shoha, it needs some changes, sure, but if you're not using it outside of a training dummy, it means you're never using Meditate and that's bad. Several fights give time to Meditate, especially Ex Trials or raid fights.

[cactuarzzzz]

Everyone talking about Hagakure and how it was a DPS increase over using Midare... which is true in SB. Ikishoten should provide bigger DPS than Hagakure did, though, because it's a free 50 Kenki that allows you to still Midare.

The only issue is that the rotation becomes much less flexible so we can't take whatever sks we like and call it a day. Yes, it kinda sucks, but it's not like people can't adapt. I've done it, though I do feel certain parts are now awkward. Having to hold off on Meikyo now to make sure it lines up with Tsubame has been a change. The awkward pause after Tsubame has made me realize I need to make sure I save some Kenki for a Shinten or try to sneak a tick of Meditate in there if the gods are willing.

I'm fine with new Hagakure just being a Sen clear. It's useful for dungeons and phase transitions so you can have a clean start and not worry about overlapping Sen.

As for Shoha, it needs some changes, sure, but if you're not using it outside of a training dummy, it means you're never using Meditate and that's bad. Several fights give time to Meditate, especially Ex Trials or raid fights.

May I have your opinion, Mr.Ryaz?
If we could deal more 3495 potency every 1 minute will it make us equal with BLM in term of pDPS?

[Valenth]

Would u guys recommend SAM for savage content after latest changes?

I would recommend doing savage content on the playstyle you enjoy most. Savage content is clearable with any and all classes so the only factor here (and playing games in general) is how much fun you have doing it. I for one just like SAM the most and clear stuff with my friends while having lots of fun. Don't worry so much about what other people think. That being said, I'm really digging the instant cast Tsubame-Gaeshi skills. It just makes things feel more epic, kinda like your signature hah! xD

[cactuarzzzz]

I would recommend doing savage content on the playstyle you enjoy most. Savage content is clearable with any and all classes so the only factor here (and playing games in general) is how much fun you have doing it. I for one just like SAM the most and clear stuff with my friends while having lots of fun. Don't worry so much about what other people think. That being said, I'm really digging the instant cast Tsubame-Gaeshi skills. It just makes things feel more epic, kinda like your signature hah! xD

May I have your opinion, Ms.Valenth?
If we could deal more 3495 potency every 1 minute will it make us equal with BLM in term of pDPS?