Samurai's 5.05 "Hagakure" Dead on Arrival

[Letz]

I'm super glad this neat tool is back and giving barely any kenki. Optimal or not, I never liked Shinten spam and was never a spammer. In 4.0 it is always a tool for me to refill some kenki for emergency. Ikishoten is still there if you want to be a shinten spammer.

Some of you act the stupidest way as if hakagure is back and you must change the way you play or else. Just don't use it if there's no purpose for you.

Oh and to the other side, Hakagure was never a hindrance to SAM's kit from start. Nobody was forced to be a shinten spammer. If you want to blame the hakagure nightmare in 4.0, blame yourself for playing that way.

The issue people have here is that Hagakure is not much of a dps increase as the skill was in 4.0, and that it isn't worth using as a regular part of the rotation. Yes, 4.0 hagakure came with shinten spamming, but we aren't really interested in whether or not you personally liked to use shinten. You yourself acknowledge that you don't make your decisions on how to play based on what is optimal. But, those of us that are interested in playing the class optimally would like to have tools in our toolkit that are worth using from a dps standpoint, and we are happy to change our rotations based on what is optimal. And you're criticizing people for wanting to increase their dps?

It's fine if you personally aren't interested in doing the most damage you can. Play how you want to play, have fun at the end of the day. But recognize that you should probably stay out of conversations like this. Because people are upset that Hagakure does not increase SAM's dps compared to DRG and MNK. This has nothing to do with shinten spamming specifically. This has to do with SE adding in a skill that is barely useful, but doesn't increase SAM's overall dps – aka a conversation for the people that will choose to play optimally.

And "just don't use it if there's no purpose for you" is kind of bad advice. Again, people wanted useful hagakure back, when it gave 20 kenki per sen. Whether you personally liked it that way doesn't matter. It doesn't change how objectively useful the ability is now, and that's what people are discussing.

If you're the kind of person who isn't interested in playing optimally (since hagakure -> shinten was optimal in 4.0), then why are you making yourself part of a conversation where people are discussing optimal play?

[Miziliti]

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Because I'm tired of seeing people complaining for the sake of complaining while rest of the world has no problem. Hakagure is only back as an addition to 5.0 SAM because many SAM players wanted it's function. Then there's people who's sole reason to dislike SAM is because they forced themselves to play the so called "optimal rotation". If you want to discuss "optimal play" this thread is probably one of the worst choice.

[Kabooa]

If you're the kind of person who isn't interested in playing optimally (since hagakure -> shinten was optimal in 4.0), then why are you making yourself part of a conversation where people are discussing optimal play?

The game needs more situational tools.

Old Hagakure wasn't a situational tool.

This Hagakure is.