New Mog Station items?

[Adrestia]

times change. if you can monetize your audience, investors will likely invest more.

And I think what those of us complaining about MTX here are really saying is that we’d rather have the project team for the game wholly focused on good gameplay. I don’t want them to be beholden to venture capitalists who don’t care at all about video games just so we can have the most realistic eyelash physics ever seen in a video game. I just want good gameplay.

[Krotoan]

And I think what those of us complaining about MTX here are really saying is that we’d rather have the project team for the game wholly focused on good gameplay. I don’t want them to be beholden to venture capitalists who don’t care at all about video games just so we can have the most realistic eyelash physics ever seen in a video game. I just want good gameplay.

The project team is? The mogshop people are an additional workforce that are separate from the Dev team. Or are you talking about the higher ups?

[Vahlnir]

And I think what those of us complaining about MTX here are really saying is that we’d rather have the project team for the game wholly focused on good gameplay. I don’t want them to be beholden to venture capitalists who don’t care at all about video games just so we can have the most realistic eyelash physics ever seen in a video game. I just want good gameplay.

The Mogstation team is not the regular development team. They are 2 separate entities.

[Adrestia]

The project team is? The mogshop people are an additional workforce that are separate from the Dev team. Or are you talking about the higher ups?

The fact that the team making items for the Mog Station is separate is not evidence that the team making the game are never being told “ok you could make X in the game better but right now the fans are sated by the Mog Station options.” Or even “avoid putting a cosmetic similar to Y in the game because we want people to pay extra for that and will have the other team make it.”

An oft-cited “X” could be the perceived ridiculously long MSQ grind between ARR and HW. I played it in real-time as it came out so my experience was different, but a number of new players, when upset by it, are told by other players to break out their credit cards.

E: to clarify in the terms you asked the question in, yes I’m essentially referring to the “higher-ups” telling the actual ground floor game designers that they absolutely must implement or not implement certain things for the sake of increasing Mog Station traffic.

I do *not* believe that the people who designed, say, post-ARR storyline, were evil mustache-twirling villains who made a really long story based on their belief that it would make some slice of the playerbase want to pay to skip it. I believe they are honest workers who were making the best story they could in the way they knew how. But how many years have passed now without the slightest change to the pacing or the content? And how many years have gone by that “buy a skip potion” has been the socially-acceptable answer? I don’t believe these two things are 100% unrelated. I believe that on some level, new player experience enhancements have been prioritized lower than they might be if skip potions didn’t exist. Not that there are no development tickets about it or that no one cares, but just that because we have a “workaround” those tickets don’t need to receive any love any time soon.

[Krotoan]

The fact that the team making items for the Mog Station is separate is not evidence that the team making the game are never being told “ok you could make X in the game better but right now the fans are sated by the Mog Station options.” Or even “avoid putting a cosmetic similar to Y in the game because we want people to pay extra for that and will have the other team make it.”

The Dev team has enough work that they are constantly pushing up against deadlines just for the content we're used to. Unless they're outright lying (which is a possibility but unlikely since if that ever got out it'd be kinda career suicidal) , they have done nothing but shuffle around scheduled content whenever they want to try something "different". The idea that the tiny bit of content the mogstation produces could ever be cited to sate the constant content lust the playerbase has is a bit ridiculous? The devs may be out of touch with some of the userbase but I'm pretty sure they don't think a couple new cosmetics will please anymore than the few hardcore glamourhounds out there. If they thought that glamour was that important, they wouldn't have such a drawn out expansion schedule for the Dresser. It's possible they've communicated between the teams to restrict glamours, possible examples would be the shisui sets, but even that was an event set first. Nothing similar has come out since. Generally the sets have been entirely unique, either to characters or in and of themselves, most of the time slightly out of world seeming. Hard to say if the character costumes would have been in game , ever, but it seems like precedent that they will forever be mogshop only.... and also smaller investments than unique sets since they require only resizing and testing.

An oft-cited “X” could be the perceived ridiculously long MSQ grind between ARR and HW. I played it in real-time as it came out so my experience was different, but a number of new players, when upset by it, are told by other players to break out their credit cards.

Other players.. NOT the devs. Consider that the skip pots are inclusive , always, up to the beginning of the latest expansion, and the devs rarely rework old content unless it's blatantly broken, it's hard to think they're avoiding fixing it just because they think the mogstation things are keeping people happy. That X is very VERY old content that would require significant investments from most departments, except the art and modeling department oddly enough. Generally the userbase complains more about lack of new content than old content. The only reason there are any threads about MSQ right now is people want the giant wad of XP without the cutscenes, which is pretty funny because they are a large reason for the huge wad of XP.

edit to answer edit:

E: to clarify in the terms you asked the question in, yes I’m essentially referring to the “higher-ups” telling the actual ground floor game designers that they absolutely must implement or not implement certain things for the sake of increasing Mog Station traffic.

I do *not* believe that the people who designed, say, post-ARR storyline, were evil mustache-twirling villains who made a really long story based on their belief that it would make some slice of the playerbase want to pay to skip it. I believe they are honest workers who were making the best story they could in the way they knew how. But how many years have passed now without the slightest change to the pacing or the content? And how many years have gone by that “buy a skip potion” has been the socially-acceptable answer? I don’t believe these two things are 100% unrelated. I believe that on some level, new player experience enhancements have been prioritized lower than they might be if skip potions didn’t exist. Not that there are no development tickets about it or that no one cares, but just that because we have a “workaround” those tickets don’t need to receive any love any time soon.

Higher ups will always want more revenue, and while there is a level at which players need to take a stand on shady practices of bringing in that revenue, FFXIV at least has been in the minority (debatably if you believe people who think our inventory problems are manufactured) , for the scummy methods of doing so. We have no rng money transactions. It's straightforward pricing, and generally does not affect the rate at which people in the current expansion progress at appropriate levels.

The one giant complaint I have is a reluctance to increase of resources available to the developers VS what the game is bringing in and a lack of transparency for design challenges. We know they're limited, we know there's "coding" problems but we don't know exactly why our data and expansions are so limited. They tell us it's not a matter of throwing money at it, but it definitely should be solvable by throwing resources such as expert talent and new technology, why are these not available? It would be very Japanese of them to NEVER imply the company has limited them since the attitude there is one of "we are all one, none should take credit above all, great precautions should be taken not to shame the others", and I'm thinking that's what's happening.

[Adrestia]

Keep in mind though I’m not saying the *devs* are claiming the fans are kept happy by the Mog Station. But I also don’t have any reason to believe that unlike every other software development company, SE gives the devs the authority to decide on their own what projects to do. “The suits” for lack of naming a bunch of different business-type-positions likely involved in the process, however, seem to have decided that the current situation is fine for now, where now is a period of multiple years.

I was also referring to the 10s-of-hours of story, not the handful of MSQ instances, but since it’s just an example the dungeons you brought up are a valid point as well.

I know my links and comments a few pages back were brushed aside as “but that’s the mobile industry!” but AAA PC/console game dev studios are equally neck-deep in this stuff these days. EA, WB, Bethesda, Blizzard. More and more each year. I think if asked the simple question of whether people want SE management to act like EA management, people would respond with a resounding “no!” So yes, while today’s Mog Station IS one of the least offensive online, that doesn’t mean there’s not financial pressure on SE to be a little more exploitative every day. It seems reasonable to me, as a player, to suggest that I want “old-school SquareSoft” design principles guiding the future of FFXIV. I love SE and have had way more positive experiences with them than negative. It’s in my interests to express to SE that I’d like it to stay that way, and that I think they should continue to resist venture capitalist greed and ideally push back harder every day.

It’s a simple process that has served SE for decades. Build great games and the money *will* come. They have no need to engineer complex systems designed to extract money from us.

E: just read your edit. Yes, I absolutely agree with you that the game should get some more resources when it’s performing well and showing its value. And it is. I am one of those who believes the inventory system could be made more “gamer-friendly” in a snap and have posted a lot about that before, but at the core it’s just about wanting what’s best for us, the players. SE has plenty of very well-paid individuals and firms making sure they stay on top of corporate interests. They don’t need us yes-manning them. They need us advocating vociferously for the players, and then in the end we can meet somewhere in the middle where everyone is happy.

I also appreciate your positive dialogue with me on the subject, by the way. Obviously we’re not 100% in agreement on everything but this is the kind of discussion I head to forums for. We’re not shouting and throwing tantrums and accusing each other of having sick agendas, we’re just talking about how the game we play can be its best.

[Krotoan]

It’s a simple process that has served SE for decades. Build great games and the money *will* come. They have no need to engineer complex systems designed to extract money from us.

As a business though they'd be fools not to put some toes in the water. The game so far has not suffered as far as I can tell for the involvement, but the current accepted "games as services" models and the style with which people consume them lends itself easily to a constant revenue flow rather than spiky "release" profits.
It's easy to think as a person and evaluate using the "golden rule". But times are changing and investors aren't interested in a company that isn't with the curve of profits. If we want SE games and IPs this is likely what we're going to have to put up with. I'm happy it's still so minimally intrusive in FFXIV.

I still vote with my dollars, and for right now the 15 dollars a month and occasional 20-30 dollar purchase are comparable to eating out once in a while or one night out at the clubs... only I don't get fat or regret them the next day.

[Adrestia]

Yeah, I think you’re right that expecting a game with literal 0 MTX these days is a pipe dream. They just need to keep themselves honest to good principles and have a community who gives them honest feedback. As people, myself included, have said, SE is doing a pretty good job of that and the cash shop we have here is no ArcheAge P2W nightmare simulator. But when something crosses the line into abusive practices, it’s important to mention it. When social construct is such that the default behavior is to ask “can I pay you more” instead of “can I get more for my dollar,” we need to reflect on that and ask if it’s really the best thing for us.

[Krotoan]

E: just read your edit. Yes, I absolutely agree with you that the game should get some more resources when it’s performing well and showing its value. And it is. I am one of those who believes the inventory system could be made more “gamer-friendly” in a snap and have posted a lot about that before, but at the core it’s just about wanting what’s best for us, the players. SE has plenty of very well-paid individuals and firms making sure they stay on top of corporate interests. They don’t need us yes-manning them. They need us advocating vociferously for the players, and then in the end we can meet somewhere in the middle where everyone is happy.

I also appreciate your positive dialogue with me on the subject, by the way. Obviously we’re not 100% in agreement on everything but this is the kind of discussion I head to forums for. We’re not shouting and throwing tantrums and accusing each other of having sick agendas, we’re just talking about how the game we play can be its best.

No problem. I try to discuss things civilly in any thread, but it gets heated pretty quick most of the time. Thanks as well for discussing instead of arguing =]


I do like to try and see situations holistically though, and the more information I have the better judgements for my own benefit and education I can make. So while I do agree users need to say something when practices get out of hand, being hyperbolic and zealot like (which this forum loves to do) is unhelpful.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

...
It really would be nice if we had more funding for the main game from it's actual revenue instead of them having what amounts to a lemonade stand on the side for extra "allowance".
...

This is a hilarious, yet sad, analogy...