RIP Ninja - 5.05

[Nezia]

We were always going to get quick, lazy changes. It's just frustrating when a class like Summoner, that has massive, glaring, flow issues, doesn't get anything that it actually needs, and just gets a minor QoL improvement that does nothing to fix the problems the job has, meanwhile AST gets some rather huge changes to a ton of abilities.

I imagine this just means they might have a stronger change planned for later, but until then the class is going to suck.

I remember that summoner received some major changes on a patch back in stormblood that made the class much smoother to play with, that's why I was kinda hopping for something more than potency/cd changes for this patch :/

[HyoMinPark]

We were always going to get quick, lazy changes. It's just frustrating when a class like Summoner, that has massive, glaring, flow issues, doesn't get anything that it actually needs, and just gets a minor QoL improvement that does nothing to fix the problems the job has, meanwhile AST gets some rather huge changes to a ton of abilities.

I imagine this just means they might have a stronger change planned for later, but until then the class is going to suck.

While I don’t know what SMN’s main issues are—if they’re gameplay issues as a whole or potency—but AST had issues keeping up with healing versus WHM/SCH. It was significantly behind the both of them. So they really needed the potency tweaks. I still don’t think it will match WHM in rDPS even with the cooldown reduction on Divination and the potency buff on it, but we’ll see. There’s still a fair bit more that they will probably have to do to it. For the most part, these were potency tweaks and cooldown reductions; nothing that changed the way the job played significantly. Only Sleeve Draw got a change with regards to function, and that was only removing the required Draw during its window that made Div/Sleeve windows a double-weaving hot mess.

I do think they need to address SMN, but let’s not shun AST for getting the help it needed in order to perform its basic healing role.

I remember that summoner received some major changes on a patch back in stormblood that made the class much smoother to play with, that's why I was kinda hopping for something more than potency/cd changes for this patch :/

That was in Patch 4.1. The balance patch before Savage (x.05 patch) rarely has major changes to the way jobs play. Most of the changes during these patches are potency buffs.

[KageTokage]

NIN's rotation honestly doesn't feel that bad to me past the opener, but when you can push out significantly more DPS with half the amount of button presses using something like MCH then it starts feeling like a problem.

[ElenaL]

Bye Felicia...

[Taranok]

I remember that summoner received some major changes on a patch back in stormblood that made the class much smoother to play with, that's why I was kinda hopping for something more than potency/cd changes for this patch :/

The change unfortunately was in 4.1, and the major changes it made, aside from 3s cast time manaless summons, was to upgrade ruin 1 into ruin 3, and turn aetherpact into an aoe instead of a godawful difficult to use tether that targeted the person nearest the pet itself.

Granted, those were massively nice changes, but the current SMN needs its oGCD bloat dropped substantially at the very least.

[Duskane]

Remove the bunny and fail mudras on weapon skill

[Drayos]

If a job's highest DPS rotation ever mandates that you weave so many oGCDs that you have to clip, then the class needs help. NIN, afaik, is in this boat. SMN is also in the boat, kinda, but it has other, far bigger issues hurting it than clipping GCDs.

I think the problem is simply they want ninja to be the fastest job CPM wise which isn’t a bad thing. Apprantly it is ridiculously smooth playstyle wise. Just very fast.

I mean we have to acknowledge Yoshi and the devs would have known the impacts these types of play styles would have on high ping players. Or players who simply can’t move their hands fast enough.

The playstyle isn’t the problem. It’s actual rotation and openers are highly appealing. And a lot of people say it’s a lot of fun to play.

The problem is the effort in for the dps u do. It needed more potency buffs. With only 900 RDPS value it needs to atleast be achieving 11k-11.5k dps. And it’s achieving like 9-10k.

Atleast it’d put ninja in a point of being a 12.4k dps range which would make its overall dps in a raid worthwhile.

[wereotter]

I saw that was the only change and was legitimately shocked....

I think, though, that they're trying to play it safe with the job. It's been pretty OP since its introduction largely due to trick attack (and previously its slashing debuff) and I expect they want to make sure that the raid meta is shaken up this expansion.

[KageTokage]

Remove the bunny and fail mudras on weapon skill

This would be single biggest change they could make to NIN in terms of making it easier to play without totally revamping the class.

It honestly feels wrong at this point that NIN is the only class that can straight up waste an OGCD by botching their ninjutsu. Especially when they were implying DNC's step mechanic would somehow make them more "skill-based" but the only thing you waste from messing up at that is a fraction of a second.

[Alistaire]

This would be single biggest change they could make to NIN in terms of making it easier to play without totally revamping the class.

It honestly feels wrong at this point that NIN is the only class that can straight up waste an OGCD by botching their ninjutsu. Especially when they were implying DNC's step mechanic would somehow make them more "skill-based" but the only thing you waste from messing up at that is a fraction of a second.

They should just give us 1-button ninjutsu. We've pruned enough skills at this point adding 6 skills to your bars is nothin. (Well, not even 6, add 6 but take away 4). This would eliminate bunny and the problems with this supposedly "fast" job that hates skillspeed the most because of how much you clip gcds with the current mudra system.