Reminder that war is still good.

[Launched]

If party mitigation is PLD's strength, then why is Shake it Off universally more powerful than Divine Veil (let alone magic only abilities like Dark Missionary and Heart of Light)?

It's not. Shake it Off is based on each individual player's health, not the WAR's. Divine Veil is based off the PLD's health. A 10% shield from a PLD (~12k) is going to be better than Shake it Off on a DRG wih 85k HP until you consume 2 cooldowns, and on a caster you need 3 cooldowns to beat Divine Veil. Plus you're completely ignoring PLD's second raidwide mitigation skill. GNB's and DRK's raidwide mitigation skills also have the difference of being % mitigation instead of a shield which will make them good for multiple hits in a short time.

If self-mitigation is GNB's strength, then why is Raw Intuition more powerful than Heart of Stone, let alone Sheltron? And let's not get started on the utility of "magic mitigation". When other tanks are bringing cooldowns that work universally against all damage types, "magic mitigation" cooldowns are more accurately described as "useless against physical attacks". It's a liability, not a strength.

Heart of Stone and Sheltron both last longer than Raw Intuition. Sheltron already matches RI's 20% mitigation and it will start scaling up as soon as we get tome gear while RI won't change. GNB also has more mitigation uptime with Camouflage's 10s extra duration over Thrill/Dark Mind.

WAR's greatest strength is it's versatility. The problem, more often than not, is that it's so versatile that it denies other tanks an opportunity to shine.

That's definitely not something WAR has in this expansion. If you want versatile, look at PLD. It had the best tank skillset in Stormblood and it got even better in Shadowbringers.

[Lyth]

WAR is fine.

The only problem with WAR is its "superior design". As the general playerbase is finally starting to recognise, when everything gets handed to you on a silver platter, it gets boring after a while. For most people, success is only truly rewarding when you have to work for it.

[Ghald]

I gave WAR a try again in Shadowbringers, still dissapointed.



When I first started this game I picked Gladiator/PLD simply because it's the traditional warrior, sword and shield, after I tried WAR in 2.0 I really like how it play on the risk vs reward aspect of the playstyle, I didn't even like axe but its skill set and playstyle won me over.


Heavensward expansion made me like WAR even more but from Stormblood onward I begin to hate it. Hard to imagine that Fell Cleave, a skill that I like can turn into a spam fest that now became WAR identity itself.


WAR have lost a lot of the skills/abilities that define what it was over the years all in the name of reduce button bloat and job simplification. Bloodbath, Berserk, etc and now Inner Beast is dead, they simply took the healing and 20% mitigation out of it and turn it into 2 addition skills.


My biggest issue with WAR isn't its dammge but how it play now compared to the WAR that I picked up years ago.

[Izsha]

WAR is fine.

The only problem with WAR is its "superior design". As the general playerbase is finally starting to recognise, when everything gets handed to you on a silver platter, it gets boring after a while. For most people, success is only truly rewarding when you have to work for it.

No, it gets boring when the job looses a boatload of abilities, and for an entire expansion gets TWO new abilities (nascent and tempest) that doesnt even affect the st rotation. The only change to how warrior plays since the IR rework is we have 2 charges of infuriate and the aoe setup, and the aoes are just cloned on every tank anyway.

Playing the same rotation for 2 years abd looking at the same thing for abother 2 years while dumbing down all ither aspects of tanking (stance dance, enmity, mitigation, etc) makes a job boring.

But if course its Lyth so instead it revolves around the spoiled war players, not the job. Because were all some hive mind that all think, act and feel the same way. "War players" this and "war players" that. Working for success? Get off the high horse. Every tank just got their 'work' dumbed down to elementary school levels and youre spouting off about working for your damage in one of the most straightforward mainstream mmos in history? The fact that you play this game robs you of gloating about ez jobs and 'working for skill'. You play a job with 1 combo and preaching about work?

War is generally fine. Its middling in just about everything and when tanks are this close thats not a bad place to be. But as someone complaining about dark for YEARS now, you should know better than to equate people not happy with how the job plays vs how a job actually performs as those are two separate metrics. People can both be disappointed/unhappy with war while war is still a fine tank, just as YOU have conolained about drks design constantly even during oeriods where drks performance was quite good. So turn down the hypocrisy.

[Lyth]

...

WAR lost a whopping three abilities this expansion:
1) Skull Sunder
2) Butcher's Block
3) Unchained

None of these abilities matter anymore due to the enmity rework this expansion.

When you look at WAR's toolkit, WAR is the strongest that it's ever been. Raw Intuition is the new IB, except that it's no longer a dps loss (or stance dependent) to use. Holmgang no longer requires a target, but is still the shortest recast invuln. Equilibrium is more available than ever. Thrill of Battle has turned Convalescence into a WAR exclusive. Shake it Off laughs at Divine Veil. And you have a 900 potency Crit/Direct Hit attack to satisfy your desires for big numbers.

You haven't lost any abilities, really. Do you want to know what has changed, though? We systematically took away the things that made you mandatory. Slashing is gone. Limit break cheesing through Shake it Off is gone. Enmity generation and stances have been equalised across the board. Doing the highest dps for the least effort is gone (if you want that, there's GNB, a job which actually has a Final Fantasy series legacy to back it up).

It's no longer about the job. It's just about you. And it's not the job that has been found lacking.

As an aside (since you brought it up), I'm actually really happy with DRK. I had specific issues that I wanted to see addressed. There are a couple more things to sort out, but I'm generally happy with how everything has turned out. I think tanks are in the best place that they have been since the inception of the game, really. SE needs to start switching their focus to healers soon.

I think at the end of the day, everyone has gotten the job that they deserve. Poetic Justice deserves no less.

[xJimmehx]

Jeeezzz. Somebody needs to stop sipping the koolaid.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Raw Intuition is not the new Inner Beast; that's surface-level thinking.

[Aluja89]

lmao, wrong on all accounts Lyth.

[IntrovertAnt]

You want more dps? GNB/PLD. You want more party utility? GNB/PLD. You want magic defense because the boss does only magic damage? DRK/PLD You want full personal mitigation for the tanks? DRK/GNB. There's not a single situation where you would want a war. It has less mitigation than all 3 tanks because it relies on healing. It has less dps than 2 tanks and is equal to a third. There's no reason to take it, you at least have a reason for the other 3.

Here is a "You want" statement that you missed.

You want to play War and no one will complain cuz it's about the same dps as all the other tanks? You can."

No one is going to prevent anyone from playing the tank they want this expansion. And if they do they are probably have a stick up their behind.

[Maneesha]

We systematically took away the things that made you mandatory..

Who is "We"? Since when are you part of the dev - team?

We know you have some grudge against the warrior class, maybe its players too, so please do yourself a favor (and primarily us) and stay away from "warrior threads", its really tiring to read your post full of animosity towards the warrior class/players.

If you can bring/present your arguments without the animosity/passive aggressive tone, then we could have a decent discussion.