Reminder that war is still good.

[Lyth]

WAR is fine.

The only problem with WAR is its "superior design". As the general playerbase is finally starting to recognise, when everything gets handed to you on a silver platter, it gets boring after a while. For most people, success is only truly rewarding when you have to work for it.

[Ghald]

I gave WAR a try again in Shadowbringers, still dissapointed.



When I first started this game I picked Gladiator/PLD simply because it's the traditional warrior, sword and shield, after I tried WAR in 2.0 I really like how it play on the risk vs reward aspect of the playstyle, I didn't even like axe but its skill set and playstyle won me over.


Heavensward expansion made me like WAR even more but from Stormblood onward I begin to hate it. Hard to imagine that Fell Cleave, a skill that I like can turn into a spam fest that now became WAR identity itself.


WAR have lost a lot of the skills/abilities that define what it was over the years all in the name of reduce button bloat and job simplification. Bloodbath, Berserk, etc and now Inner Beast is dead, they simply took the healing and 20% mitigation out of it and turn it into 2 addition skills.


My biggest issue with WAR isn't its dammge but how it play now compared to the WAR that I picked up years ago.

[Izsha]

WAR is fine.

The only problem with WAR is its "superior design". As the general playerbase is finally starting to recognise, when everything gets handed to you on a silver platter, it gets boring after a while. For most people, success is only truly rewarding when you have to work for it.

No, it gets boring when the job looses a boatload of abilities, and for an entire expansion gets TWO new abilities (nascent and tempest) that doesnt even affect the st rotation. The only change to how warrior plays since the IR rework is we have 2 charges of infuriate and the aoe setup, and the aoes are just cloned on every tank anyway.

Playing the same rotation for 2 years abd looking at the same thing for abother 2 years while dumbing down all ither aspects of tanking (stance dance, enmity, mitigation, etc) makes a job boring.

But if course its Lyth so instead it revolves around the spoiled war players, not the job. Because were all some hive mind that all think, act and feel the same way. "War players" this and "war players" that. Working for success? Get off the high horse. Every tank just got their 'work' dumbed down to elementary school levels and youre spouting off about working for your damage in one of the most straightforward mainstream mmos in history? The fact that you play this game robs you of gloating about ez jobs and 'working for skill'. You play a job with 1 combo and preaching about work?

War is generally fine. Its middling in just about everything and when tanks are this close thats not a bad place to be. But as someone complaining about dark for YEARS now, you should know better than to equate people not happy with how the job plays vs how a job actually performs as those are two separate metrics. People can both be disappointed/unhappy with war while war is still a fine tank, just as YOU have conolained about drks design constantly even during oeriods where drks performance was quite good. So turn down the hypocrisy.

[Lyth]

...

WAR lost a whopping three abilities this expansion:
1) Skull Sunder
2) Butcher's Block
3) Unchained

None of these abilities matter anymore due to the enmity rework this expansion.

When you look at WAR's toolkit, WAR is the strongest that it's ever been. Raw Intuition is the new IB, except that it's no longer a dps loss (or stance dependent) to use. Holmgang no longer requires a target, but is still the shortest recast invuln. Equilibrium is more available than ever. Thrill of Battle has turned Convalescence into a WAR exclusive. Shake it Off laughs at Divine Veil. And you have a 900 potency Crit/Direct Hit attack to satisfy your desires for big numbers.

You haven't lost any abilities, really. Do you want to know what has changed, though? We systematically took away the things that made you mandatory. Slashing is gone. Limit break cheesing through Shake it Off is gone. Enmity generation and stances have been equalised across the board. Doing the highest dps for the least effort is gone (if you want that, there's GNB, a job which actually has a Final Fantasy series legacy to back it up).

It's no longer about the job. It's just about you. And it's not the job that has been found lacking.

As an aside (since you brought it up), I'm actually really happy with DRK. I had specific issues that I wanted to see addressed. There are a couple more things to sort out, but I'm generally happy with how everything has turned out. I think tanks are in the best place that they have been since the inception of the game, really. SE needs to start switching their focus to healers soon.

I think at the end of the day, everyone has gotten the job that they deserve. Poetic Justice deserves no less.

[Maneesha]

We systematically took away the things that made you mandatory..

Who is "We"? Since when are you part of the dev - team?

We know you have some grudge against the warrior class, maybe its players too, so please do yourself a favor (and primarily us) and stay away from "warrior threads", its really tiring to read your post full of animosity towards the warrior class/players.

If you can bring/present your arguments without the animosity/passive aggressive tone, then we could have a decent discussion.

[NyneSwordz]

Lyth at it again with her War bashing and biased opinions. Just ignore her.

[Tyrial]

WAR lost a whopping three abilities this expansion:
1) Skull Sunder
2) Butcher's Block
3) Unchained

We actually lost more than 3. Skull, BB, Unchained, Conval, Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone. Sure, not really a big deal that we lost Deliverance due to enmity changes, but Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone were great skills. It was also nice being able to use Raw Intuition independently as a CD regardless of the fact that it was a parry buff (it was still guaranteed damage reduction). They may have given us back the two animations from IB and SC but they completely changed how they work. I can't speak for others, but I'm not ok with that.

[Lyth]

...

Convalescence has been a role action since Stormblood. Strictly speaking, WAR is the only tank that hasn't lost access to the effect, because it has been merged with Thrill of Battle. Raw Intuition was only guaranteed if you paired it with Awareness, because Critical Hits always override parries.

Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone are still in game if you really like them, and their functions have been passed on to other actions. Raw Intuition is more useable than Inner Beast ever was, in that it's oGCD, does not incur a dps or resource loss to use, and does not have a stance limitation. Also, do you really think that you were going to keep both Steel Cyclone's self-healing and Nascent Flash (which is an even bigger self-heal)?

I think that when the job stopped completely overpowering the other tank jobs, people started to realise that the core gameplay is actually pretty lacklustre. But the solution is actually the opposite of demanding power buffs. What you need is more challenging and engaging gameplay. Effort to match reward.

[Tyrial]

Convalescence has been a role action since Stormblood. Strictly speaking, WAR is the only tank that hasn't lost access to the effect, because it has been merged with Thrill of Battle. Raw Intuition was only guaranteed if you paired it with Awareness, because Critical Hits always override parries.

Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone are still in game if you really like them, and their functions have been passed on to other actions. Raw Intuition is more useable than Inner Beast ever was, in that it's oGCD, does not incur a dps or resource loss to use, and does not have a stance limitation. Also, do you really think that you were going to keep both Steel Cyclone's self-healing and Nascent Flash (which is an even bigger self-heal)?

I think that when the job stopped completely overpowering the other tank jobs, people started to realise that the core gameplay is actually pretty lacklustre. But the solution is actually the opposite of demanding power buffs. What you need is more challenging and engaging gameplay. Effort to match reward.

Except nobody asked for nascent flash. Convalescence was a role action, true, but there were times when it was beneficial to use outside of Thrill. Raw Intuition was guaranteed parry because the only time you used it was with awareness. Also, IB and SC are no longer fundamentally in the game. The skills that supposedly replaced them don't even function the same way. Not sure where you're basing your facts off of. Everything you post is nothing but anti-WAR bs. Please, show us on the doll where the bad WAR touched you, sweetie...

[MerlinCross]

44%, but outside Adlo fishing, Warrior was never in Defiance, and even if they were, it's equivalent to the baseline 20% damage reduction all tanks get now.

Because being in Tank Stance was always a DPS loss and you're bad tank if decided to be in tank stance. Good times.

Convalescence has been a role action since Stormblood. Strictly speaking, WAR is the only tank that hasn't lost access to the effect, because it has been merged with Thrill of Battle. Raw Intuition was only guaranteed if you paired it with Awareness, because Critical Hits always override parries.

Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone are still in game if you really like them, and their functions have been passed on to other actions. Raw Intuition is more useable than Inner Beast ever was, in that it's oGCD, does not incur a dps or resource loss to use, and does not have a stance limitation. Also, do you really think that you were going to keep both Steel Cyclone's self-healing and Nascent Flash (which is an even bigger self-heal)?

I think that when the job stopped completely overpowering the other tank jobs, people started to realise that the core gameplay is actually pretty lacklustre. But the solution is actually the opposite of demanding power buffs. What you need is more challenging and engaging gameplay. Effort to match reward.

I do like we got to keep Convalescence in a way. I always saw Thrill of Battle to be kinda weak so having it get something was at the very least okay.

Also while Nascent Flash is an even bigger heal, which should you be using? It or Raw Intuition? That and most WARs agree that its pretty clunky to use to the point we basically have to use a Macro for it. I just got it myself and I'm already looking for a macro. It might be a good strong skill but usability is part of the equation.