Customizable pronouns

[VillainQueen]

Right, the character that we the players get to make and customize. But hey, I'm sure you'd be just as happy if they forced everyone to play the same dude in this MMO.



I'd say that they did a lot more work to make a whole new race of cat men to appeal to furries, but Squenix did it and it was a huge hit.

Careful that you don't hurt yourself by reaching that far. I didn't say we should all play the same character, I just said there are limitations. And to be clear technical limitations. I don't mind of you can play as whatever you want, i'm just saying it's not possible. And to say only Furries like Hrothgar it's just not true. I doubt YoshiP knows what a furrie is, that is not something that reached japan yet. Same with the third gender or any other genderoption it's not something most people from outside the US will even understand. It's such a small percentage of the population but sure demand the unreasonable that sure makes people more accepting. If I ask people in my country who never vistited tumblr if they know what non-binary is I would get confused looks in return.

[Cled-cat]

I have no issue with how people perceive themselves. But shouldn't inclusiveness include accepting that others might perceive you as something different? Npcs think you're male/female and so that is how they treat you.

It’s definitely important to understand that people perceive others differently, of course, but I think a big reason what OP and any other non-binary peeps want is just the option for a purely neutral way of being referred. Like it’s not the same as FORCING everyone to only be called “they” etc, if they’re just a regular girl/guy, but simply another option to help some people get more invested in the game. Given how natural the pixies seemed, despite being gender neutral, it should serve as pretty good evidence how fluid and normal it could be.

There will always be people who shut down any notion of more inclusivity for minorities, and that speaks volumes on how they clearly don’t have much understanding or empathy for others different than them asking for something that isn’t necessarily desired by the majority. It’s one thing to argue about constraints on resources, definitely, but it’s entirely another to basically just say “it’s a game, keep your “politics”/“identity” etc. out of it.”, which isn’t only pretty rude, but ignorant.

[DarkMasamune]

As much as I understand the feel, I don't think it's worth it. I'm sorry if it makes you feel somewhat unconfortable, but for the small % of players who would gladly want/need this, I don't think it will be added anytime soon.

[Paige404]

Maybe in a future game but remember that this game is going out to a huge variety of people but concept of nonbinary is new to the world let alone games. It's something games will have to catch up to, which I'm sure they will in the future.

Correction: non-binary genders are new to you, and several games have been explicitly inclusive in this regard for years.

They may use the wrong pronouns to you but always remember it is nothing personal to you and they are not trying to attack non-binary people.

literally no one accused Squenix of this but okay

[Cled-cat]

Careful that you don't hurt yourself by reaching that far. I didn't say we should all play the same character, I just said there are limitations. And to be clear technical limitations. I don't mind of you can play as whatever you want, i'm just saying it's not possible. And to say only Furries like Hrothgar it's just not true. I doubt YoshiP knows what a furrie is, that is not something that reached japan yet. Same with the third gender or any other genderoption it's not something most people from outside the US will even understand. It's such a small percentage of the population but sure demand the unreasonable that sure makes people more accepting. If I ask people in my country who never vistited tumblr if they know what non-binary is I would get confused looks in return.

No offside, but if anyone is “reaching that far” it may be you. Most people in my country who aren’t either OAP’s or toddlers have had some exposure/idea to gender non-conformity. Non binary expressions/identities didn’t just spawn from the hellish pits of Tumblr, they’ve always been present in some forms in most societies. Just look at David Bowie, I wouldn’t say it’s a reach to claim he’s had some pretty strong non conforming looks with his use of makeup etc.

I think we shouldn’t equate something being misunderstood by a lot of people as making it *not* worth implementing. Our understanding of people is never infinite, and it’s becoming more and more of an open discussion in many places nowadays.

[NealSnow]

It’s definitely important to understand that people perceive others differently, of course, but I think a big reason what OP and any other non-binary peeps want is just the option for a purely neutral way of being referred. Like it’s not the same as FORCING everyone to only be called “they” etc, if they’re just a regular girl/guy, but simply another option to help some people get more invested in the game. Given how natural the pixies seemed, despite being gender neutral, it should serve as pretty good evidence how fluid and normal it could be.

There will always be people who shut down any notion of more inclusivity for minorities, and that speaks volumes on how they clearly don’t have much understanding or empathy for others different than them asking for something that isn’t necessarily desired by the majority. It’s one thing to argue about constraints on resources, definitely, but it’s entirely another to basically just say “it’s a game, keep your “politics”/“identity” etc. out of it.”, which isn’t only pretty rude, but ignorant.

Problem is, this is a touchy subject that many view as a mental illness. Whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant but to give better understanding to you. Imagine if people were trying to call aultism normal, you might get taken aback and think clearly its a mental illness, therefore it'd be bad to normalize it. That's how a lotta people view nonbinary talk. I myself can cry easily at another crying so I have empathy, but empathy does mean you have to agree with someones beliefs, just means you won't actively harass or attack them.

[cinnamonoreo]

Careful that you don't hurt yourself by reaching that far. I didn't say we should all play the same character, I just said there are limitations. And to be clear technical limitations. I don't mind of you can play as whatever you want, i'm just saying it's not possible. And to say only Furries like Hrothgar it's just not true. I doubt YoshiP knows what a furrie is, that is not something that reached japan yet. Same with the third gender or any other genderoption it's not something most people from outside the US will even understand. It's such a small percentage of the population but sure demand the unreasonable that sure makes people more accepting. If I ask people in my country who never vistited tumblr if they know what non-binary is I would get confused looks in return.

There are plenty of furries in Japan. Some of the best fursuits come from there, in fact.

Nonbinary people have existed for about as long as gender has. We've described ourselves differently throughout the ages according to local languages, social customs, and gender norms. It's a human thing, not an American thing or even a Western thing.

This is mostly a localization thing. All SE has to do is allow the option and I doubt it's going to be all that difficult for them to do unless they really fucked up implementing gender in the first place.

[Nyvara]

Given how natural the pixies seemed, despite being gender neutral, it should serve as pretty good evidence how fluid and normal it could be.

This is true normally I struggle with the whole pronoun thing mostly because I am an old fart, With the pixies it was very normal (Maybe because they were pixies and gender neutral fae is kinda familiar to me). Now I just need a gender neutral term for waifu becuause I think I'm in love with Feo Ul!

But on topic. I feel like the logistics of doing such a thing would be incredible. I mean I guess technically you could at character creation have a drop down to choose gender. Male, Female, not specified, kinda thing. But then ALL the voice acting through out the game would have to change and the text and god knows what else.

[Akonyl]

it's been a real treat seeing gender neutral pronouns being used for the pixies in Il Mheg and for our adorable branch.

fwiw, I was 100% on board with the gender neutral pixies thing, but in the retainer text our adorable branch/feo ul refers to themselves as a "she" so I'm not entirely sure what their deal is wrt gender. Possible it's just a translation mishap though, since people probably aren't checking retainer text much.

[Cled-cat]

Problem is, this is a touchy subject that many view as a mental illness. Whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant but to give better understanding to you. Imagine if people were trying to call aultism normal, you might get taken aback and think clearly its a mental illness, therefore it'd be bad to normalize it. That's how a lotta people view nonbinary talk. I myself can cry easily at another crying so I have empathy, but empathy does mean you have to agree with someones beliefs, just means you won't actively harass or attack them.

I haven’t heard of non-binary being a mental illness? Gender-neutral identities and styles does not equal having a mental illness at all, that’s a bit of a spurious claim and also a bit insulting if you don’t have the evidence to back that up, except general anecdotes.

Gender Dysphoria is a diagnosable condition but it gets very murky around the edges when concerning non-binary identities. It’s usually a lot more clear cut in many cases with trans-men/women, but there’s still a conversation to be had regarding non-binary people I think. However I don’t think that’s a conversation we should be having on a game forum. This thread and OP was about simply asking for a more neutral option regarding pronouns, just like how the Pixies used, showing they’re aware of gender-neutrality and therefore opening the discussion up for it being available for us.

Once people start asking for “autism” related pronouns in the game then that’s something else entirely... but I have a feeling that’s not gonna happen.