Customizable pronouns

[Cled-cat]

Careful that you don't hurt yourself by reaching that far. I didn't say we should all play the same character, I just said there are limitations. And to be clear technical limitations. I don't mind of you can play as whatever you want, i'm just saying it's not possible. And to say only Furries like Hrothgar it's just not true. I doubt YoshiP knows what a furrie is, that is not something that reached japan yet. Same with the third gender or any other genderoption it's not something most people from outside the US will even understand. It's such a small percentage of the population but sure demand the unreasonable that sure makes people more accepting. If I ask people in my country who never vistited tumblr if they know what non-binary is I would get confused looks in return.

No offside, but if anyone is “reaching that far” it may be you. Most people in my country who aren’t either OAP’s or toddlers have had some exposure/idea to gender non-conformity. Non binary expressions/identities didn’t just spawn from the hellish pits of Tumblr, they’ve always been present in some forms in most societies. Just look at David Bowie, I wouldn’t say it’s a reach to claim he’s had some pretty strong non conforming looks with his use of makeup etc.

I think we shouldn’t equate something being misunderstood by a lot of people as making it *not* worth implementing. Our understanding of people is never infinite, and it’s becoming more and more of an open discussion in many places nowadays.

[NealSnow]

It’s definitely important to understand that people perceive others differently, of course, but I think a big reason what OP and any other non-binary peeps want is just the option for a purely neutral way of being referred. Like it’s not the same as FORCING everyone to only be called “they” etc, if they’re just a regular girl/guy, but simply another option to help some people get more invested in the game. Given how natural the pixies seemed, despite being gender neutral, it should serve as pretty good evidence how fluid and normal it could be.

There will always be people who shut down any notion of more inclusivity for minorities, and that speaks volumes on how they clearly don’t have much understanding or empathy for others different than them asking for something that isn’t necessarily desired by the majority. It’s one thing to argue about constraints on resources, definitely, but it’s entirely another to basically just say “it’s a game, keep your “politics”/“identity” etc. out of it.”, which isn’t only pretty rude, but ignorant.

Problem is, this is a touchy subject that many view as a mental illness. Whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant but to give better understanding to you. Imagine if people were trying to call aultism normal, you might get taken aback and think clearly its a mental illness, therefore it'd be bad to normalize it. That's how a lotta people view nonbinary talk. I myself can cry easily at another crying so I have empathy, but empathy does mean you have to agree with someones beliefs, just means you won't actively harass or attack them.

[Iscah]

Problem is, this is a touchy subject that many view as a mental illness. Whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant but to give better understanding to you. Imagine if people were trying to call aultism normal, you might get taken aback and think clearly its a mental illness, therefore it'd be bad to normalize it. That's how a lotta people view nonbinary talk.

Possibly not the best example, as autism/Aspergers is not a "mental illness" (implying that it is something 'not part' of the person that needs to be cured). For me it's an intrinsic part of how my brain works, and I don't think I'd be me without it.

We absolutely should be normalising that some people are not "normal", but neither they nor society are worse off for it.

[Barraind]

Possibly not the best example, as autism/Aspergers is not a "mental illness"

It is recognized as a mental illness (Specifically a developmental disorder treated with therapy and psychotropics) by every single psychiatric organization in the world.

As is gender dysphoria, as an aside.

[Iscah]

It is recognized as a mental illness (Specifically a developmental disorder treated with therapy and psychotropics) by every single psychiatric organization in the world.

It's considered a mental disorder. That's not the same thing as an illness.

[Gwenorai]

It's a mental disorder. That's not the same thing as an illness.

The two are interchangeable these days, to the point that the differences are usually built upon the origin of the issue. But eh, both are considered as an abnormality for good health.

[cinnamonoreo]

It is recognized as a mental illness (Specifically a developmental disorder treated with therapy and psychotropics) by every single psychiatric organization in the world.

As is gender dysphoria, as an aside.

Because of the way the medical system is set up, having a diagnosis is required for treatment. That's the only reason gender dysphoria is in there. If you read the definition of it in the newest DSM, that's fairly clear because recommended treatment is social and medical transition. Until transitioning is treated less like a formal medical process and more like body modification, it's gonna stay that way. The APA and medical organizations have come out explicitly stating being transgender is not a mental illness and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Akonyl]

it's been a real treat seeing gender neutral pronouns being used for the pixies in Il Mheg and for our adorable branch.

fwiw, I was 100% on board with the gender neutral pixies thing, but in the retainer text our adorable branch/feo ul refers to themselves as a "she" so I'm not entirely sure what their deal is wrt gender. Possible it's just a translation mishap though, since people probably aren't checking retainer text much.

[cinnamonoreo]

This is true normally I struggle with the whole pronoun thing mostly because I am an old fart, With the pixies it was very normal (Maybe because they were pixies and gender neutral fae is kinda familiar to me). Now I just need a gender neutral term for waifu becuause I think I'm in love with Feo Ul!

But on topic. I feel like the logistics of doing such a thing would be incredible. I mean I guess technically you could at character creation have a drop down to choose gender. Male, Female, not specified, kinda thing. But then ALL the voice acting through out the game would have to change and the text and god knows what else.

I just call them my adorable branch like how they refer to themselves sometimes.

Again, unless they really screwed the pooch on implementing gender as is, the work is not unfeasible. They don't need to update the voice acting. I mostly just want the text updated.

fwiw, I was 100% on board with the gender neutral pixies thing, but in the retainer text our adorable branch/feo ul refers to themselves as a "she" so I'm not entirely sure what their deal is wrt gender. Possible it's just a translation mishap though, since people probably aren't checking retainer text much.

I suspect it was an oversight or perhaps just an affectation they use when talking to mortals.

[Cled-cat]

Problem is, this is a touchy subject that many view as a mental illness. Whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant but to give better understanding to you. Imagine if people were trying to call aultism normal, you might get taken aback and think clearly its a mental illness, therefore it'd be bad to normalize it. That's how a lotta people view nonbinary talk. I myself can cry easily at another crying so I have empathy, but empathy does mean you have to agree with someones beliefs, just means you won't actively harass or attack them.

I haven’t heard of non-binary being a mental illness? Gender-neutral identities and styles does not equal having a mental illness at all, that’s a bit of a spurious claim and also a bit insulting if you don’t have the evidence to back that up, except general anecdotes.

Gender Dysphoria is a diagnosable condition but it gets very murky around the edges when concerning non-binary identities. It’s usually a lot more clear cut in many cases with trans-men/women, but there’s still a conversation to be had regarding non-binary people I think. However I don’t think that’s a conversation we should be having on a game forum. This thread and OP was about simply asking for a more neutral option regarding pronouns, just like how the Pixies used, showing they’re aware of gender-neutrality and therefore opening the discussion up for it being available for us.

Once people start asking for “autism” related pronouns in the game then that’s something else entirely... but I have a feeling that’s not gonna happen.