Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[XenabelleS]

Aren't "no lifers" already being rewarded by the amount of gil you can make and what that allows you to do, specifically:

a) get ahead faster - because I assume that noone who has made to all 80s in the first week did so by gathering every single component themselves and even if they did, that required far more time than any casual playing. You can afford materia stockpiles for penta-melding much more easily than someone with less time or gil.
b) being ahead means you'll be able to capitalize on the upcoming savage release to make even more gil.
c) gil allows you to get into housing; you can buy gear for alts instead of collecting and making it yourself; you can buy mounts that other people have to farm, you can buy any glamour.

So it seems to me that hardcore crafters get abundant rewards over casual ones. Since the abilities you are complaining about are QoL ones that SE has introduced to help casual crafters to catch up to you and that's what you don't like.

[CookiesNCreams]

Aren't "no lifers" already being rewarded by the amount of gil you can make and what that allows you to do, specifically:

a) get ahead faster - because I assume that noone who has made to all 80s in the first week did so by gathering every single component themselves and even if they did, that required far more time than any casual playing. You can afford materia stockpiles for penta-melding much more easily than someone with less time or gil.
b) being ahead means you'll be able to capitalize on the upcoming savage release to make even more gil.
c) gil allows you to get into housing; you can buy gear for alts instead of collecting and making it yourself; you can buy mounts that other people have to farm, you can buy any glamour.

So it seems to me that hardcore crafters get abundant rewards over casual ones. Since the abilities you are complaining about are QoL ones that SE has introduced to help casual crafters to catch up to you and that's what you don't like.

A) Gil is irrelevant. I enjoy crafting end game pieces of gear. Did it since 2.x. I just love competition. You’re the one that bought up gil to this conversation to justify square Enix catering to only casual players. Which, as I have explained, is selfish.

B) As I said, Gil is not my priority. Gil is simply a stepping stone to affording what I need to continuously compete. Period. Simply competing on an end game level with adequate compensation is also our goal. I really dislike repeating myself..

C) I do not care about housing, as well as many other hardcore crafters I know. We only care about competition and having fun making gear. And if anything, enjoy lowering prices so poorer players can afford it. You are indirectly demonizing hardcore crafters.

D) According to you, we earn Gil. Cool. Been doing that since 2.x, nothing new or exciting. You, on the other hand, have access to Prudent Touch, Preparatory Touch, Delicate Synthesis, a crafting system that is literally *designed* to help you, you are not forced to buy/craft job specific crafter gear..should I go on and on? Also, you have some nerve to say we don’t “like” the fact that casuals are catching up. That’s not the issue here. Stop being selfish like most casual players, and accept the fact that hardcore players want compassion from developers too. It’s not about just you.

Read my posts again..

[Nixxe]

Aren't "no lifers" already being rewarded by the amount of gil you can make and what that allows you to do, specifically:

a) get ahead faster - because I assume that noone who has made to all 80s in the first week did so by gathering every single component themselves and even if they did, that required far more time than any casual playing. You can afford materia stockpiles for penta-melding much more easily than someone with less time or gil.
b) being ahead means you'll be able to capitalize on the upcoming savage release to make even more gil.
c) gil allows you to get into housing; you can buy gear for alts instead of collecting and making it yourself; you can buy mounts that other people have to farm, you can buy any glamour.

So it seems to me that hardcore crafters get abundant rewards over casual ones. Since the abilities you are complaining about are QoL ones that SE has introduced to help casual crafters to catch up to you and that's what you don't like.

That gil generation is dependent on the relative scarcity of the items. Making crafting all jokey dokey both reduces the demand for those items and increases the supply, drastically reducing their value. That implicit reward you're talking about is the one that's at risk because the increase in purchasing power as items get cheaper does not out scale the drop in real value. If it's taken too far, as it has been in games like WoW, crafting pretty much becomes worthless.

Introducing things like Preparatory Touch is in no way, shape, or form a catch up mechanic or QoL, as QoL changes are tiny changes to the game that simply make something less aggravating, but have little to no impact on the overall balance or design. Some of these new abilities are instead meta defining and require you to already be caught up. They're also available from day 1 and it's equally valuable to everyone. Catch up mechanics are things like the crafting beast tribes, which are added late in the expansion to let everyone finish getting their stuff up.

[Granyala]

That gil generation is dependent on the relative scarcity of the items. Making crafting all jokey dokey both reduces the demand for those items and increases the supply, drastically reducing their value.

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant because if peoples income goes down across the board, prices will go down accordingly. The economy works just as it always has albeit with slightly smaller numbers.
Since there is nothing in this game that costs millions of gil in the first place (barring buying a house and gil is the least of the players worry in that area) there literally is no point in amassing 100s of millions except bragging rights.
No one will come to harm with easier crafting, no one will end up in the poor house. You can stop the hyperbole in that regard.

That being said: I still hope for the master book patterns to be a bit more challenging to craft than spamming prudent till success. That gets a bit lame. Okay for leveling crap but not ok for endgame crafts.

Lol, I totally got ignored. I guess ignoring something you don't like is easier than addressing it.

In a competitive environment, it makes 0 sense to gimp yourself, no matter how much you might enjoy the challenge.
The analogy would be to raid with unequipped slots because you deem the content too easy.

[Nixxe]

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant because if peoples income goes down across the board, prices will go down accordingly. The economy works just as it always has albeit with slightly smaller numbers.
Since there is nothing in this game that costs millions of gil in the first place (barring buying a house and gil is the least of the players worry in that area) there literally is no point in amassing 100s of millions except bragging rights.
No one will come to harm with easier crafting, no one will end up in the poor house. You can stop the hyperbole in that regard.

That being said: I still hope for the master book patterns to be a bit more challenging to craft than spamming prudent till success. That gets a bit lame. Okay for leveling crap but not ok for endgame crafts.

Which is not completely and utterly irrelevant because as I've said repeatedly I've already seen this play out in WoW and it did not in fact keep up.

Amassing gil is fun. Again, stop trying to take away everyone else's fun. That's incredibly selfish of you.

There's no hyperbole on my part. I didn't say people would end up in the poor house; I said crafting would become worthless. Flipping is better money anyway. I craft because it still makes enough money to satisfy me and is more fun than flipping. You're the one going off on ridiculous tangents about addiction and Skinner boxes because some people had the audacity to enjoy the game differently than you.

[Granyala]

Amassing gil is fun. Again, stop trying to take away everyone else's fun. That's incredibly selfish of you.

Being able to craft and be self sufficient is fun.
Stop trying to take a way my fun by reintroducing dumb and boring grinds. That's very selfish of you.

It works both ways.

The OP said that "gil is irrelevant".

Well obviously not to the other gal, see above.

[Joven]

Well obviously not to the other gal, see above.

I'm only addressing the OP's points as they chase their tail with their own logic. Crafting exists as a way for players to be relatively self sufficient in terms of gear upgrades and as a means of making money. If making money isn't their concern then making crafting difficult for the sake of making it difficult is pointless even with exclusive awards because, as I said previously, the 'pro' crafters would just release their optimum rotations for those crafts so everyone interested would still get the prize.

Making crafting difficult serves only to limit how much of certain items are posted to the marketboard. They can do as many 'challenging' crafts they want, but what are they gonna do with it once it's done? The only options are to use it or sell it and I don't see the point of wasting mats or inventory space on a craft you aren't going to use or sell just for the 'challenge' of it.

[Nixxe]

Being able to craft and be self sufficient is fun.
Stop trying to take a way my fun by reintroducing dumb and boring grinds. That's very selfish of you.

It works both ways.

No, it really doesn't. There was only ever a modest barrier to being self-sufficient previously and the new abilities have little to nothing to do with how grindy it is. Please get a clue.

[Joven]

No, it really doesn't. There was only ever a modest barrier to being self-sufficient previously and the new abilities have little to nothing to do with how grindy it is. Please get a clue.

And OP calls me condescending, lol.

[Granyala]

the new abilities have little to nothing to do with how grindy it is.

I never stated otherwise, if you had actually bothered to read my posts and not be triggered by the first line or seeing my avatar, you would have read (multiple times by now) that I agree with you on the fact that the current crafting process is too uninvolved.

I'm merely arguing that more grind through harsher gear requirement is not a valid way to fix that because once you get your gear grinded you would, yet again, end up in a braindead macro-able and boring crafting system. It would merely take more time to get there and that [more time] would lead to the exclusivity you apparently seem to want.

BTW: I didn't ask SE to make crafting easier. I didn't ask SE to lessen the grind. Back in ARR I accepted that this aspect of the game was not my cup of tea.
But they did it anyway and now I am enjoying being self sufficent.
YOU want to take that away from me. YOU are the selfish one here. Not me. I merely take what SE offers me and tell them "I like this one better than the old one!".