Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[CookiesNCreams]

After reading through this entire thread (for some reason), I've noticed that the OP and their proxy conveniently gloss over the suggestion of making their own, challenging rotation:


Just because you have the easy option doesn't mean you're forced to use it.

They also seemed to conveniently ignore when someone asked for examples of how they would change things to make crafting more challenging:


Instead of just demanding SE do all the work to 'fix' crafting to make it more challenging for you, offer suggestions. Something like increasing the CP cost of Prudent Touch, or removing it entirely. Remove Steady Hand II and Careful Synth III, I dunno, I'm just tossing out ideas, but at least I'm making an effort.

I can agree that if you're willing to put in the effort then you should be rewarded, but for something like crafting there really is no way to have 'peak' crafters without making crafting so arduous that only those type of people would bother with it. As others have said, a lot of people already view crafting to be too difficult to bother with, would you now want to drive off everyone else for the satisfaction you seek?

1: Why would I intentionally inconvenience myself/ handicap myself VS other crafters in the end game market? Why? Because the option is there? As someone who monopolizes Primal thanks to World Visit, that is a foolish thing to do. Don’t be silly. That is absolutely ridiculous. That’s like having $12,000,000 USD, and buying a Honda Civic, when I could buy a Bugatti. Don’t. Please.

2: You clearly skimmed over my posts. I previously stated, that I would suggest for Square Enix to add a very simple, yet undeniably reasonable in difficulty...mechanic...such as: only allowing end game recipes to let the player use Prudent Touch 5 times. And use progress moves 3-4 times. No amount of Prudent Touch or Preparatory Touch will save you then. You’ll need to actually learn how to craft, just like in ARR or HW. ( minus the RNG ) Don't be so willfully ignorant like that.

3: 2.0 was hard for you. 3.0 was hard for you. 4.0 was hard for you. And now you’re insinuating that 5.0 is hard for you also?! I’m sorry, but if you need crafting to get any easier than this. It has absolutely nothing to do with being casual. More like laziness, and refusal to apply and adapt. I’m sorry, but, crafting can’t possibly be any easier than this. This is just dumb easy.

[Joven]

1: Why would I intentionally inconvenience myself/ handicap myself VS other crafters in the end game market? Why? Because the option is there? As someone who monopolizes Primal thanks to World Visit, that is a foolish thing to do. Don’t be silly. That is absolutely ridiculous. That’s like having $12,000,000 USD, and buying a Honda Civic, when I could buy a Bugatti. Don’t. Please.

2: You clearly skimmed over my posts. I previously stated, that I would suggest for Square Enix to add a very simple, yet undeniably reasonable in difficulty...mechanic...such as: only allowing end game recipes to let the player use Prudent Touch 5 times. And use progress moves 3-4 times. No amount of Prudent Touch or Preparatory Touch will save you then. You’ll need to actually learn how to craft, just like in ARR or HW. ( minus the RNG ) Don't be so willfully ignorant like that.

3: 2.0 was hard for you. 3.0 was hard for you. 4.0 was hard for you. And now you’re insinuating that 5.0 is hard for you also?! I’m sorry, but if you need crafting to get any easier than this. It has absolutely nothing to do with being casual. More like laziness, and refusal to apply and adapt. I’m sorry, but, crafting can’t possibly be any easier than this. This is just dumb easy.

1. They're probably not worried about crafting because that isn't the main focus of the game, so demanding they give you more challenging crafts won't go very far. So as a stop-gap, if a challenge is truly the only thing you seek, then yes, limit yourself. If crafting is so stupidly easy as you claim it to be, then you should have no trouble staying on top of your respective markets even with limiting your rotation.

Also, your Bugatti and Civic analogy misses the mark. What benefit would a Bugatti have over a Civic beyond "look at this shiny thing I have". A more expensive car means more expensive repairs, insurance, etc, so just because you have that $12,000,000 USD doesn't make a Civic a less viable option to a Bugatti.

2. So which recipes would you suggest get this limitation? What bonuses or benefits would the crafted items grant for the cost? What's to stop the 'pro' crafters from posting their rotations online so casual crafters can reap those same rewards without the effort? Going back to your first point, this is just needlessly limiting yourself for an artificial difficulty, so what's the difference?

3. When did I ever say crafting was hard for me? I said "a lot of people". For someone who doesn't like people putting words in their mouth you seem keen on doing it yourself. The only complaint I have with crafting is the amount of mats needed for simple crafts. Like, why does it take 5 skins to make one leather? Especially from mobs that have a multi-drop table where you can kill 15-20 of them and only get 4 skins if that.

[iWaRTuRTLeS]

Crafting has been easy since release. Most indepth and unique crafting system of any mmo, but the easiest.

[CookiesNCreams]

Crafting has been easy since release. Most indepth and unique crafting system of any mmo, but the easiest.

That’s fine if you believe that. But let me ask you this. Why is it necessary to make it a children’s mini game? “Easy” is an understatement in 5.0. If there was a difficulty easier than “easy” to describe crafting in 2019...it would be “toddler”. There is nothing fun about an economically valuable activity in an MMO, that guarantees you will HQ things no matter what.

That needs to change.

[Fyce]

That’s fine if you believe that. But let me ask you this. Why is it necessary to make it a children’s mini game? “Easy” is an understatement in 5.0. If there was a difficulty easier than “easy” to describe crafting in 2019...it would be “toddler”. There is nothing fun about an economically valuable activity in an MMO, that guarantees you will HQ things no matter what.

That needs to change.

Do you understand that you are complaining about the starting content of the newest expac being too easy, even when you know that an update is planned in 4 days and that the main crafting content will come in 5.1?

It's literally like someone complaining that there is no hard battle content in Shadowbringers right now.

[Nixxe]

Do you understand that you are complaining about the starting content of the newest expac being too easy, even when you know that an update is planned in 4 days and that the main crafting content will come in 5.1?

It's literally like someone complaining that there is no hard battle content in Shadowbringers right now.

Do you understand that the starting content has thus far in the game's history been fairly indicative of how hard crafting will be for the expansion and it has gotten easier for two expansions in a row now?

[CookiesNCreams]

Do you understand that you are complaining about the starting content of the newest expac being too easy, even when you know that an update is planned in 4 days and that the main crafting content will come in 5.1?

It's literally like someone complaining that there is no hard battle content in Shadowbringers right now.

As Nixxe just stated, damage controlling the situation has been done since the dawn of 2.0. There is no secret trick here. If you see a mechanic in FFXIV (or any game for that matter) that seems too easy upon release, 99% of the time, it remains that way for the remainder of the game’s life span.

Luckily, in FFXIV, we have developers that listen to their community (most of the time lol), so that has the potential to change. I don’t know why you are acting like crafting will immediately become super challenging on Tuesday once master books are out..because, uh, they won’t. Please, let’s not damage control the situation, and be realistic here.

[XenabelleS]

Aren't "no lifers" already being rewarded by the amount of gil you can make and what that allows you to do, specifically:

a) get ahead faster - because I assume that noone who has made to all 80s in the first week did so by gathering every single component themselves and even if they did, that required far more time than any casual playing. You can afford materia stockpiles for penta-melding much more easily than someone with less time or gil.
b) being ahead means you'll be able to capitalize on the upcoming savage release to make even more gil.
c) gil allows you to get into housing; you can buy gear for alts instead of collecting and making it yourself; you can buy mounts that other people have to farm, you can buy any glamour.

So it seems to me that hardcore crafters get abundant rewards over casual ones. Since the abilities you are complaining about are QoL ones that SE has introduced to help casual crafters to catch up to you and that's what you don't like.

[Elamys]

You don't need to be a no lifer to be a competitive crafter in this game and that's the point we're making. "No life hardcore" crafters aren't actually getting anything more casual crafters are getting right now.

1.) Leveling through Shadowbringers requires almost no effort at all, especially with the Crystalline Mean; on three of my crafters I only had to do maybe 3 leves because of the Mean deliveries. If it's important to you to be one of the first max level crafters, then you have to prioritize it over MSQ. Casual crafters can do this. Casual crafters could have easily been stockpiling materia since Heavensward just by doing their weekly deliveries. You can even buy materia 7s with scrips now.

2.) It's been a month since early access, if you wanted to be ready for Savage crafts to be released and you aren't by now, whose fault is this really? Again, leveling through Shadowbringers is very simple. I'm still in my gear from the end of Stormblood and I gather all the materials for leves myself and I'm still done with leveling a craft in a few hours because it takes like 10 leves total.

3.) Crafters are not the only people in this game who earn gil. Plenty of people out there are wealthy who don't touch crafting. Make use of the currency you can obtain from battle content. I have a friend who makes a ton of gil just buying Grade 3 Thanalan Topsoil with his poetics. And even casual crafters can make a ton of money off of simple crafts. You know what I make the bulk of my gil from? Furnishings...and not even high level furnishings. I mean stuff like Wall Planters and Lalafellin Stepstools.

The fact of the matter is that there is always going to be a tradeoff in this game. If crafting is important to you, prioritize it. If it's not as important to you, then why do you expect to be rewarded on the same level? A lot of people default to the "well I have a life" argument, but...I'd wager everybody in this thread has work, classes, a family, you know, a life. But we've elected to prioritize our crafting. Because I focus on crafting, I know that my astrologian is undergeared and I won't be able to do savage. I don't expect to get savage gear because of that.

[CookiesNCreams]

Aren't "no lifers" already being rewarded by the amount of gil you can make and what that allows you to do, specifically:

a) get ahead faster - because I assume that noone who has made to all 80s in the first week did so by gathering every single component themselves and even if they did, that required far more time than any casual playing. You can afford materia stockpiles for penta-melding much more easily than someone with less time or gil.
b) being ahead means you'll be able to capitalize on the upcoming savage release to make even more gil.
c) gil allows you to get into housing; you can buy gear for alts instead of collecting and making it yourself; you can buy mounts that other people have to farm, you can buy any glamour.

So it seems to me that hardcore crafters get abundant rewards over casual ones. Since the abilities you are complaining about are QoL ones that SE has introduced to help casual crafters to catch up to you and that's what you don't like.

A) Gil is irrelevant. I enjoy crafting end game pieces of gear. Did it since 2.x. I just love competition. You’re the one that bought up gil to this conversation to justify square Enix catering to only casual players. Which, as I have explained, is selfish.

B) As I said, Gil is not my priority. Gil is simply a stepping stone to affording what I need to continuously compete. Period. Simply competing on an end game level with adequate compensation is also our goal. I really dislike repeating myself..

C) I do not care about housing, as well as many other hardcore crafters I know. We only care about competition and having fun making gear. And if anything, enjoy lowering prices so poorer players can afford it. You are indirectly demonizing hardcore crafters.

D) According to you, we earn Gil. Cool. Been doing that since 2.x, nothing new or exciting. You, on the other hand, have access to Prudent Touch, Preparatory Touch, Delicate Synthesis, a crafting system that is literally *designed* to help you, you are not forced to buy/craft job specific crafter gear..should I go on and on? Also, you have some nerve to say we don’t “like” the fact that casuals are catching up. That’s not the issue here. Stop being selfish like most casual players, and accept the fact that hardcore players want compassion from developers too. It’s not about just you.

Read my posts again..