Dark Knight follow up thread

[Hierro]

So far I have not been convinced as to why you would bring a DRK over PLD, WAR, or GNB in terms of either main tank or off tank, because DRK cannot carry the group from wiping to a boss because healer died, even though GNB also has this problem as well, you are better off taking any of the other tanks over DRK in dungeons.

In a fight like Titania EX, DRK has the flexibility to do either MT or OT role. LD has a long enough duration to be used with ease, convenience, and leniency on Fae Light or tethers, and the cooldown is short enough to be used for both their second occurrences. GNB and WAR must be careful with their timings on tethers, and GNB/PLD must ask the other tank to share the second light. Also, TBN's short cooldown makes it extremely usable during adds. Hard Swipe will always see a TBN. In Innocence during add phase, every holy sword will see a TBN.

Whether or not you want to look at what DRK has as being noteworthy is not my problem, DRK's fine.

[BarretOblivion]

In a fight like Titania EX, DRK has the flexibility to do either MT or OT role. LD has a long enough duration to be used with ease, convenience, and leniency on Fae Light or tethers, and the cooldown is short enough to be used for both their second occurrences. GNB and WAR must be careful with their timings on tethers, and GNB/PLD must ask the other tank to share the second light. Also, TBN's short cooldown makes it extremely usable during adds. Hard Swipe will always see a TBN. In Innocence during add phase, every holy sword will see a TBN.

Whether or not you want to look at what DRK has as being noteworthy is not my problem, DRK's fine.

All tanks can invuln fae except the 2nd on Paladin while GNB gets Superboilde back a few seconds before the 2nd cast, even WAR if timed properly. The only tank that can't do the 3 tether strat is WAR. Doesn't make LD a good tank invuln. Again, the requirement for healers to 100% your HP is the part that breaks it from being a decent cooldown to a straight garbage one. Lets look at all the other tanks invulns

WAR: Shortest cooldown allowing the most uses in the fight. WAR can self heal and use thrill of battle to help heal almost half thier HP by themselves.
GNB: Its an invuln that brings them down to 1. Will get about the same amount of uses as LD. Healers can drop a regen on them to heal after use and a GNB can drop their own regen to heal themselves up.
PLD: Full damage immunity with no drawback besides long cooldown. Will be able to use 2 times during a fight. Lasts 10 secs allowing healers to just DPS.

Then there is DRK:
Must be healed a total of their health total in 10 secs once they drop to 1. They still TAKE DAMAGE while they are "walking dead" so any healing that is done is also ignored because they just lose that HP while healers are trying to hit the heal requirement. If you don't have a WHM its just a giant resource pit for healers and you have no way to help heal yourself.

No, Living Dead is terrible and should be avoided usage as much as possible. Tank swap before even consider Living Dead, you are hurting your group by using it without a WHM and if you do have a WHM now you are requiring them to have beni when you do use LD.

[Danelo]

In a fight like Titania EX, DRK has the flexibility to do either MT or OT role. LD has a long enough duration to be used with ease, convenience, and leniency on Fae Light or tethers, and the cooldown is short enough to be used for both their second occurrences. GNB and WAR must be careful with their timings on tethers, and GNB/PLD must ask the other tank to share the second light. Also, TBN's short cooldown makes it extremely usable during adds. Hard Swipe will always see a TBN. In Innocence during add phase, every holy sword will see a TBN.

Whether or not you want to look at what DRK has as being noteworthy is not my problem, DRK's fine.

When you start to advocate for LD people stop listening. It makes you sound horribly biased. It's a shit ability and every objective player knows it. When pre planned, short of a whm in the team, I die every use of it on Titania ex tethers and fae light.

[Awful]

So far I have not been convinced as to why you would bring a DRK over PLD, WAR, or GNB in terms of either main tank or off tank, because DRK cannot carry the group from wiping to a boss because healer died, even though GNB also has this problem as well, you are better off taking any of the other tanks over DRK in dungeons.


The Blackest Night is a good shield yes, but as a DPS tool you are better not having a gimmick on it if it's just DPS neutral or loss.


And I see no reason to run double DRK because how bad Living Dead is because you waste resources just to get DRK up to full HP and you NEED TO GET DRK TO FULL HP OR THEY DIE WITH WALKING DEAD.


Dark Mind is worse than Rampart just because it only reduces magic damage taken since the number of tankbusters is half physical and half magical.


Darkside has the same problems that it had in Heavensward which I understand why people liked it but now it's way worse because you can't prep Darkside outside of combat and you might as well be taking MNK over DRK.


DRK is for those players who just hate people in general and do not want to take responsibility for any slip ups they did and just make other peoples lives just as miserable as they are.


And I hate to say it but if they do want to make DRK fun they need to retcon the DRK story quests.


But alternatively they could just not retcon the lore and make it fun, lore be damned.

The only things I agree with this post is Dark Mind and Living Dead, they are the 2 worst CDs in the game, one is situational the other is a resource void, all they have to do is make Dark Mind 10-15% all dmg like HoS/RI and it'd be good and make LD 50% of your HP not 100%. As for TBN it has its uses in dungeons and Titania/Innocence adds as TBN lines up very well with them and give you a neutral DPS additive, should TBN be tied to tank resources? No, and it shows on DRK as well that you shouldn't tie your CDs with dmg resources and hopefully that address that.

As for the rest I just don't agree, I haven't met any crappy DRKs in the world I've met crappy people and bad tanks that don't know how to hit their buttons and either can't tank, mitigate, or do terrible DPS. I don't think DRK story quests needs to be retconned that makes no sense whatsoever DRK is one of the best storylines in the game and ShB story was also influenced by said same person who made the DRK story, I personally love their work.

I'd rather take a good DRK that knows how to play their class, does what needs to be done, and is a positive person to be around than any other tank that doesn't take accountability for their own performances, I feel like this point that you made about how you dislike a DRK player is you're putting your own biases instead of the person just simply not being good.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

They still TAKE DAMAGE while they are "walking dead" so any healing that is done is also ignored because they just lose that HP while healers are trying to hit the heal requirement.

Proof that people complain about things without actually understanding how they work.

LD does NOT ignore the healing done while you are taking damage. It isn't like Doom where you have to be at the max HP total. You just have to be healed for the correct amount.

To use a simple example, let's say we have approximately 123k worth of HP with food and gear. I trigger Walking Dead and am taking 20k damage over the course of the 10 seconds. My healers don't have to heal 143k worth of HP. They still just need to heal 123k worth of HP and I'll be left with 103k hp when walking dead goes away.

[Reynhart]

They still just need to heal 123k worth of HP and I'll be left with 103k hp when walking dead goes away.

Which, saddly, makes the healing requirement even more confusing since they can't rapidly judge if they healed you enough, and why the "just benediction" is so popular.

I'd really like LD to instead pop a ripper enemy during its duration, and that the party would have to kill it before the timer expires so that you'd stay alive.

[ColdestHeaven]

While I do believe Dark Mind is too niche and Living Dead is by far the most inconvenient among "invincibilities", I'm confused when I see people concerned about TBN. It's a rather powerful ability. High damage incoming? Pop TBN, then Edge/Flood. No high damage incoming? Edge/Flood. It's in my opinion one of the best utilities in the entire kit of tanks as both MT and OT, just for how versatile it is and how strong it is when compared to IR/Sheltron/HoS (haven't properly tried HoS yet though). True: the MP gauge is tied to damage, and TBN relies on it despite it doing no damage - but it still gives a free Edge/Food which can be saved for a specific moment (or just blown immediately as I do most of the time). It's just a delayed Edge/Flood. Sure, it doesn't *always* break if things don't go according to keikaku - but I think that it really isn't as bad and it doesn't happen as often as some would paint it. I do feel like I'm doing less damage than other tanks in trials/raid - significantly so - but I don't think this is because of TBN, rather me not optimizing stuff or the kit itself being weaker.

As far as fun is concerned, I can get behind people feeling unsatisfied - mostly with the DPS side of it. It's just a meh combo (not a fan of the animation of Soul Eater) with some oGCD (granted, very flashy ones) and Bloodspiller. I don't like Bloodspiller, it doesn't feel nearly as heavy as other "big" skills and the actual hit is quite delayed from when you press it. Which is why Delirium being an equivalent to Inner Release (other than being also repetitive: 3 out of 4 tanks spamming the same ability really sucks out the identity) really grinds my gears. My pipe dream (if really spamming a same-potency skill ad nauseam is the best DRK can get) would be for Delirium to turn Bloodspiller into one of those buttons which cycle attacks similar to Duties and PvP, skills doing the same potency but with cycling animations. Those animations wouldn't even be new - because they could recycle the old flashy ones they left behind: I personally miss the other two combo finishers (Power Slash and can't remember the other one) and Scourge. So Delirium actually now would drive you into a frenzy which makes you move errantly with extravagant combos - a concept that kind of reminds me of Artorias from Dark Souls. That wouldn't fix the "spam the button" problem unless it changed more buttons (like the actual combo instead of Bloodspiller), but it would certainly change the feeling a little.

[jetfire117]

While I do believe Dark Mind is too niche and Living Dead is by far the most inconvenient among "invincibilities", I'm confused when I see people concerned about TBN. It's a rather powerful ability. High damage incoming? Pop TBN, then Edge/Flood. No high damage incoming? Edge/Flood. It's in my opinion one of the best utilities in the entire kit of tanks as both MT and OT, just for how versatile it is and how strong it is when compared to IR/Sheltron/HoS (haven't properly tried HoS yet though). True: the MP gauge is tied to damage, and TBN relies on it despite it doing no damage - but it still gives a free Edge/Food which can be saved for a specific moment (or just blown immediately as I do most of the time). It's just a delayed Edge/Flood. Sure, it doesn't *always* break if things don't go according to keikaku - but I think that it really isn't as bad and it doesn't happen as often as some would paint it. I do feel like I'm doing less damage than other tanks in trials/raid - significantly so - but I don't think this is because of TBN, rather me not optimizing stuff or the kit itself being weaker.

As far as fun is concerned, I can get behind people feeling unsatisfied - mostly with the DPS side of it. It's just a meh combo (not a fan of the animation of Soul Eater) with some oGCD (granted, very flashy ones) and Bloodspiller. I don't like Bloodspiller, it doesn't feel nearly as heavy as other "big" skills and the actual hit is quite delayed from when you press it. Which is why Delirium being an equivalent to Inner Release (other than being also repetitive: 3 out of 4 tanks spamming the same ability really sucks out the identity) really grinds my gears. My pipe dream (if really spamming a same-potency skill ad nauseam is the best DRK can get) would be for Delirium to turn Bloodspiller into one of those buttons which cycle attacks similar to Duties and PvP, skills doing the same potency but with cycling animations. Those animations wouldn't even be new - because they could recycle the old flashy ones they left behind: I personally miss the other two combo finishers (Power Slash and can't remember the other one) and Scourge. So Delirium actually now would drive you into a frenzy which makes you move errantly with extravagant combos - a concept that kind of reminds me of Artorias from Dark Souls. That wouldn't fix the "spam the button" problem unless it changed more buttons (like the actual combo instead of Bloodspiller), but it would certainly change the feeling a little.

I always dreamed of DRK having a skill that puts them into a berserk or frenzy mode that you described. Like the skill just makes your ogcd faster and lower CDs on your gcds or infinite mana. But maybe it would be too OP? But the haste on bloodweapon gave an effect of that feeling, so hopefully they put it back in someway.

[Tex_Mex]

TBN is the only defensive ability (belonging to tanks) in the game that is in direct opposition to offensive skills. The TBN shield may be awesome, but losing 500 potency when it doesn't pop is just garbage. Easiest way to fix TBN is as follows:

Remove the mana cost on TBN, remove Dark Arts entirely, and increase the TBN CD to 25 seconds. This will eliminate the issues with TBN being a damage loss when the shield does not break, while also bringing it in line with other short CD tank abilities (Shelltron, Raw Intuition, and Heart of Stone)

Also, give Dark Mind a 10% physical damage reduction in addition to the 20% magical. This one is obvious........

[Danelo]

Proof that people complain about things without actually understanding how they work.

LD does NOT ignore the healing done while you are taking damage. It isn't like Doom where you have to be at the max HP total. You just have to be healed for the correct amount.

To use a simple example, let's say we have approximately 123k worth of HP with food and gear. I trigger Walking Dead and am taking 20k damage over the course of the 10 seconds. My healers don't have to heal 143k worth of HP. They still just need to heal 123k worth of HP and I'll be left with 103k hp when walking dead goes away.

Doesn't take away from LD being a healer CD instead of a tank cd. It's utterly useless without being in group content and a whm. It's a poor man's synergy to try to force whm into content when they weren't being played as much.

DRK is entirely at the mercy of the healer, with below average self sustain to help, and no way for the healer to know where they are at with healing the DRK.

And not to mention the only tank CD completely useless in solo man content.