Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[DPZ2]

I don’t agree with such a corrupt mindset. This has been ongoing since 4.0, and to have it carry over to 5.0+ is absolutely insulting and quite frankly, disappointing. This is why I personally will keep bringing up this problem until it is answered in a live letter. We at least deserve to know why casuals are being prioritized in crafting and why hardcores are being flipped off.

I'm a bit confused here. What, exactly, do you want to have happen in order to facilitate your concept of hardcore crafting?

What has to be removed (or added) from the current game?

And how will this requested change affect casual crafters?

Is this a 'casuals are not worthy' issue?

Someone on the hardcore crafting side mentioned economics in a post. I assume if anyone can craft HQ gear, the pricing of such gear on the Market Board is reduced. Is this a reason (not necessarily the only one) that hardcore crafters are dissatisfied with the way things are going?

[Joven]

After reading through this entire thread (for some reason), I've noticed that the OP and their proxy conveniently gloss over the suggestion of making their own, challenging rotation:

I mean, if all you care about is a challenge, you can always set one for yourself in the way you suggested SE does it - by slef-imposing certain limitations, like not using certain skills at all or maybe never letting your IQ-stacks reach more than 5, not using any food or melded gear etc.
If its the challenge and the puzzle you care about, I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of those!
...but thats not the impression I've gotten so far - you seem to care much more about being rewarded for a challenge and having this reward be exclusive and locked behind hardcord-crafting (which seems to translate to "I want crafting to be an RNG-base time-sink").

Just because you have the easy option doesn't mean you're forced to use it.

They also seemed to conveniently ignore when someone asked for examples of how they would change things to make crafting more challenging:

I'm a bit confused here. What, exactly, do you want to have happen in order to facilitate your concept of hardcore crafting?

What has to be removed (or added) from the current game?

And how will this requested change affect casual crafters?

Is this a 'casuals are not worthy' issue?

Someone on the hardcore crafting side mentioned economics in a post. I assume if anyone can craft HQ gear, the pricing of such gear on the Market Board is reduced. Is this a reason (not necessarily the only one) that hardcore crafters are dissatisfied with the way things are going?

Instead of just demanding SE do all the work to 'fix' crafting to make it more challenging for you, offer suggestions. Something like increasing the CP cost of Prudent Touch, or removing it entirely. Remove Steady Hand II and Careful Synth III, I dunno, I'm just tossing out ideas, but at least I'm making an effort.

I can agree that if you're willing to put in the effort then you should be rewarded, but for something like crafting there really is no way to have 'peak' crafters without making crafting so arduous that only those type of people would bother with it. As others have said, a lot of people already view crafting to be too difficult to bother with, would you now want to drive off everyone else for the satisfaction you seek?

[CookiesNCreams]

After reading through this entire thread (for some reason), I've noticed that the OP and their proxy conveniently gloss over the suggestion of making their own, challenging rotation:


Just because you have the easy option doesn't mean you're forced to use it.

They also seemed to conveniently ignore when someone asked for examples of how they would change things to make crafting more challenging:


Instead of just demanding SE do all the work to 'fix' crafting to make it more challenging for you, offer suggestions. Something like increasing the CP cost of Prudent Touch, or removing it entirely. Remove Steady Hand II and Careful Synth III, I dunno, I'm just tossing out ideas, but at least I'm making an effort.

I can agree that if you're willing to put in the effort then you should be rewarded, but for something like crafting there really is no way to have 'peak' crafters without making crafting so arduous that only those type of people would bother with it. As others have said, a lot of people already view crafting to be too difficult to bother with, would you now want to drive off everyone else for the satisfaction you seek?

1: Why would I intentionally inconvenience myself/ handicap myself VS other crafters in the end game market? Why? Because the option is there? As someone who monopolizes Primal thanks to World Visit, that is a foolish thing to do. Don’t be silly. That is absolutely ridiculous. That’s like having $12,000,000 USD, and buying a Honda Civic, when I could buy a Bugatti. Don’t. Please.

2: You clearly skimmed over my posts. I previously stated, that I would suggest for Square Enix to add a very simple, yet undeniably reasonable in difficulty...mechanic...such as: only allowing end game recipes to let the player use Prudent Touch 5 times. And use progress moves 3-4 times. No amount of Prudent Touch or Preparatory Touch will save you then. You’ll need to actually learn how to craft, just like in ARR or HW. ( minus the RNG ) Don't be so willfully ignorant like that.

3: 2.0 was hard for you. 3.0 was hard for you. 4.0 was hard for you. And now you’re insinuating that 5.0 is hard for you also?! I’m sorry, but if you need crafting to get any easier than this. It has absolutely nothing to do with being casual. More like laziness, and refusal to apply and adapt. I’m sorry, but, crafting can’t possibly be any easier than this. This is just dumb easy.

[Joven]

1: Why would I intentionally inconvenience myself/ handicap myself VS other crafters in the end game market? Why? Because the option is there? As someone who monopolizes Primal thanks to World Visit, that is a foolish thing to do. Don’t be silly. That is absolutely ridiculous. That’s like having $12,000,000 USD, and buying a Honda Civic, when I could buy a Bugatti. Don’t. Please.

2: You clearly skimmed over my posts. I previously stated, that I would suggest for Square Enix to add a very simple, yet undeniably reasonable in difficulty...mechanic...such as: only allowing end game recipes to let the player use Prudent Touch 5 times. And use progress moves 3-4 times. No amount of Prudent Touch or Preparatory Touch will save you then. You’ll need to actually learn how to craft, just like in ARR or HW. ( minus the RNG ) Don't be so willfully ignorant like that.

3: 2.0 was hard for you. 3.0 was hard for you. 4.0 was hard for you. And now you’re insinuating that 5.0 is hard for you also?! I’m sorry, but if you need crafting to get any easier than this. It has absolutely nothing to do with being casual. More like laziness, and refusal to apply and adapt. I’m sorry, but, crafting can’t possibly be any easier than this. This is just dumb easy.

1. They're probably not worried about crafting because that isn't the main focus of the game, so demanding they give you more challenging crafts won't go very far. So as a stop-gap, if a challenge is truly the only thing you seek, then yes, limit yourself. If crafting is so stupidly easy as you claim it to be, then you should have no trouble staying on top of your respective markets even with limiting your rotation.

Also, your Bugatti and Civic analogy misses the mark. What benefit would a Bugatti have over a Civic beyond "look at this shiny thing I have". A more expensive car means more expensive repairs, insurance, etc, so just because you have that $12,000,000 USD doesn't make a Civic a less viable option to a Bugatti.

2. So which recipes would you suggest get this limitation? What bonuses or benefits would the crafted items grant for the cost? What's to stop the 'pro' crafters from posting their rotations online so casual crafters can reap those same rewards without the effort? Going back to your first point, this is just needlessly limiting yourself for an artificial difficulty, so what's the difference?

3. When did I ever say crafting was hard for me? I said "a lot of people". For someone who doesn't like people putting words in their mouth you seem keen on doing it yourself. The only complaint I have with crafting is the amount of mats needed for simple crafts. Like, why does it take 5 skins to make one leather? Especially from mobs that have a multi-drop table where you can kill 15-20 of them and only get 4 skins if that.