SE needs to do more to help bad players

[Seraphor]

Because you have no say in it? You used a convenience tool for the system to make you a group. Your fun being ruined for my own is not going to make me lose sleep. You losing time, again same. I don't have this problem because they add a trust system I used now and can go at my own pace. But what I am stating is that bad players being bad players is ok in my book as long as they are having fun. If taking longer to do something is that much of a problem. I would make friends and do premade groups. You have that option.



This is a war that you can't win. You can't force people to play better. I have plenty friends who don't care how bad they play, and have tons of fun even being bad. I respect that.

Making content harder won't make them play better. It will just mean your time gets more wasted when they join your group.

This.

You are not entitled to a quick run.
You're using a matchmaking system to pair up with other players, all players are entitled to the same experience, and like all things, you will go at the pace of your slowest member.
This is a gamble you take when you use duty finder, and your choice to leave if you wish.
Don't want to take that risk, use party finder.

[Nyvara]

This.

You are not entitled to a quick run.
You're using a matchmaking system to pair up with other players, all players are entitled to the same experience, and like all things, you will go at the pace of your slowest member.
This is a gamble you take when you use duty finder, and your choice to leave if you wish.
Don't want to take that risk, use party finder.

This^

We are talking about MSQ dungeons acquired in the duty finder and folks are getting crazy about Kicking the bads and bad this or bad that. Save all that crazy for the high end things. As I have said in a thread like this more than once. I can expect people to have high standards in expert/savage content. But for normal? you need to lower your standards.

For pete's sake don't go kicking folks in quest dungeons because they are not performing to your standards. That's a real crappy thing to do.

[RoyalBeef]

Wanting msq stuff to be harder to teach them is not going to teach them. It is just going to punish them. That is pretty much it.

Of course. Ultimately they have to teach themselves. Being punished for sucking is an incentive for that. Rewards than can only be earned once you became a better player are also an incentive. Handing everything out for no effort breeds many lazy and bad players, who would have guessed? Add in the random cross server queues where players don't even have to mind their reputation anymore, and you get the current state the game is in.

[Rivxkobe]

Because the "decently" grade is subjective and not set in stone.
Pretty sure people would start playing more "decently" if the game itself told them they performed bad.


e.g have an objective measure to hold people against, and not a personal expectation.

Is it though?

The game has specific rotations and actions every role takes to do what they do. So long as they are doing their rotation and using their kit this would be considered playing "decently". Why? Because they are using what the game gives them instead of spamming the same spell over and over or spamming something like Piercing Talon on DRG.

People would not play better if the game told them they play bad because it already does by them failing content and then they run to the forums/reddit/twitter and complain and beg for content nerfs and Job buffs.

If you want to play poorly, then fine, but don't get upset when people don't want to carry you through content that you are not contributing to at all and are actually making more difficult.

It's not that easy to play the different classes effectively and the game itself does offer you no help in learning them

People keep saying this but... Why do you need more than tooltips and random mobs or even dummies to test on? Playing the job decently requires no more than knowing how it works by reading the tooltips and taking a few minutes to test it out.

[Airget]

It would be nice if they actually had a training ground for mechanics, then we could actually have some challenging 4-man dungeons per patch cycle.

[Wavaryen]

Of course. Ultimately they have to teach themselves. Being punished for sucking is an incentive for that. Rewards than can only be earned once you became a better player are also an incentive. Handing everything out for no effort breeds many lazy and bad players, who would have guessed? Add in the random cross server queues where players don't even have to mind their reputation anymore, and you get the current state the game is in.

That is not how it is going to work. What is going to happen is that you get more of your time wasted, not them getting better.

[DynnDiablos]

Many people simply play for fun. I am not saying that is an excuse for not understanding basic mechanics, but not everyone is going to have their rotations set up EXACTLY the same nor do they have to. Now, I get if you are completely dead weight and not following simple rules, but I try not to concern myself with how other players play. If we are clearing the content and not wiping over and over, I don't see the big deal. Live and let live.

People aren't required to play exactly how YOU want them to. This isn't all about you and if you want things to go a certain way and people to play a certain way form your own party with a full list of expectations and rules. Easy peasy.

(On a side note: I do find the lack of understanding of stacking mechanics to be quite bothersome and have noticed it happening more often than not lately)

[TalithaSolarien]

Is it though?

The game has specific rotations and actions every role takes to do what they do. So long as they are doing their rotation and using their kit this would be considered playing "decently". Why? Because they are using what the game gives them instead of spamming the same spell over and over or spamming something like Piercing Talon on DRG.

People would not play better if the game told them they play bad because it already does by them failing content and then they run to the forums/reddit/twitter and complain and beg for content nerfs and Job buffs.

If you want to play poorly, then fine, but don't get upset when people don't want to carry you through content that you are not contributing to at all and are actually making more difficult.



People keep saying this but... Why do you need more than tooltips and random mobs or even dummies to test on? Playing the job decently requires no more than knowing how it works by reading the tooltips and taking a few minutes to test it out.

That is a huge fallacy. There are about 30-40 skill per class that play together in an intricate web to enable you to do optimal dps (just talking dps here). Figuring that out alone from the tooltips is hard, esp. as they are not as complete as one would wish. Figuring that out for yourself is what a lot of players do and this leads to a lot of bad rotations. Add in the fact that most dps jobs play differently.

So no, it's not as easy like saying "just read the tooltips".

[Wavaryen]

It would be nice if they actually had a training ground for mechanics, then we could actually have some challenging 4-man dungeons per patch cycle.

How would that help? The trust system does that just fine.

[kidalutz]

That is a huge fallacy. There are about 30-40 skill per class that play together in an intricate web to enable you to do optimal dps (just talking dps here). Figuring that out alone from the tooltips is hard, esp. as they are not as complete as one would wish. Figuring that out for yourself is what a lot of players do and this leads to a lot of bad rotations. Add in the fact that most dps jobs play differently.

So no, it's not as easy like saying "just read the tooltips".

Edit that crap before the homogenize DPS jobs too fix it fix it now.