The Healer Double Standard

[Critical-Limit]

Problem with that mentality when it comes to healers is there's only 3 to choose from and two are mandatory for content. So they need to be balanced, and right now, they're not.

This is AFTER we missed out on a new healer because "they wanted to balance what they had". SE has had 4 years to "balance" healers, and so far they haven't done a great job. They need some new blood or something because what has been going on for the past 4 years isn't working.




This. SE needs to stop balancing around the top 1% of the player base and around the 90% and lower that the majority of plays like.

As long as those 3 healers can carry their own weight. Who cares if one is slightly stronger. You pick the stronger cuz it’s easier. But if all 3 can clear. There is no problem.

[Hatstand]

Surely there must be some way both ‘DPS healers’ and ‘pure healers’ can both be happy? Does it really have be one or other?

I don’t know how but surely there must be some way to accommodate both or give people the some kind of option between which one they’d rather be? Ultimately this debate won’t settle if we have to choose one or the other, because ultimately only one half of the group is going to satisfied. It just doesn’t seem to right for one half to suffer for the other to be happy.

In casual content, yes. But when it comes down to it, either a healer is capable of getting you through content or they're not. You'd need both dpsing healers and non-dpsing healers to be capable, otherwise they'd just be unplayable, but from the group's perspective, getting a non-dps healer is just a loss (unless there's an equivalent buffing system. And... I don't really understand why people would go for an offensive buffing system when they don't want to dps. Roleplay?). As such, dps healers would absolutely get preferred. WHM has survived in the past as a less-dps-ey healer (compared to SCH) because despite the fewer abilities it could still push out damage. And if that's the standard we're going for (simple damage as opposed to no damage) we're fine. We already know how to have a healer that does that (please, let it not be all of them).

I've been ruminating on solutions. I may post some for discussion when I'm not so tired. I agree that we need to find some middle ground, because I don't want my healers back at the expense of other people's (although it still baffles me why people are so opposed to dps abilities being THERE. If you want to be a pure healer just take them off your bar).

[Hatstand]

Complex is relative. They could give us hundreds of abilities with dozens of possible rotations, and there will be people who think it isn't complex enough.

And yet, when asked how many buttons a healer's dps kit should have, everyone who answered gave a response in the same range. ~6-10.

[TonberiScholar]

I find your reasoning flawed.

I imagine you're going to get far more damage by hitting Broil than Ruin 2. There's not so much movement in Titania that Ruin 2 is your best option.

Aiming for maximum uptime is correct, but doing so at the expense of superior action choice is blatantly wrong.

There's a reason I never put scathe on my bar.

This is an abstraction, but...

Let's say you can get in 100 DPS GCDs during a fight with perfect play.

Sidenote: This is low for Titania. The number 1 Scholar DPS in the world for Titania EX atm fits in 153 Casts of Broil III, 18 Casts of Ruin II and 23 casts of Biolysis, so they have 194 damaging GCDs during the fight. The number 100 Scholar DPS for Titania EX is at 136 casts of Broil III, 21 Casts of Biolysis and 17 casts of Ruin II, so they're at 174 DPS GCDs.

So 100's low, but it's a nice round number.

If you have 100 DPS GCD opportunities but can only hit 70 of them, you'd think using Broil III and just hitting 70% of your potential DPS GCD opportunities would be better, right? Since it's stronger.

Compared to me, who's a scrub (I am) and who just spams Ruin II at every damaging GCD opportunity, without any thought and without ever hitting Broil III.

But since I'm occupying more GCDs with *something*, I end up doing more damage even though I'm (by the standards of what the game chooses to highlight) playing worse.

Ruin II Blind spam: 100 * 200 Potency = 20000 Potency's worth of damage

Broil III at 70% of opportunities : 70 * 280 Potency = 19600 Potency's worth of damage.

This isn't an exact comparison (because Potency doesn't translate directly into damage), but it illustrates the principle.

You can have a "barely passing grade" on GCD uptime using the "best" option and still be delivering less Potency per GCD than someone who's just spamming one button as fast as they can but actually hitting every time they can.

This gets more complicated with different Jobs, but the main takeaway is that if you can fill more overall GCDs with *something*, even if it's lower Potency, that's better than trying to optimize on hitting less GCD opportunities. Until you get to the point where you can keep as close to perfect GCD uptime as possible with your "better" damaging option.

There's usually a gradient in-between those two points, but "spam a button whenever you can" is often a lot easier for most people than "do your rotation but do it more often".

[Billythepancake]

Complex is relative. They could give us hundreds of abilities with dozens of possible rotations, and there will be people who think it isn't complex enough.

If its relative then explain to me, relatively speaking, how its complex.

[Acesfool]

I've been ruminating on solutions. I may post some for discussion when I'm not so tired. I agree that we need to find some middle ground, because I don't want my healers back at the expense of other people's (although it still baffles me why people are so opposed to dps abilities being THERE. If you want to be a pure healer just take them off your bar).

I have no problem at all with the dps abilities being there. My problem is with the notion that healers should be more focused on dps than healing. To me it's like getting into your car and being upset that it doesn't have all of the capabilities of a boat or a plane.

[Acesfool]

If its relative then explain to me, relatively speaking, how its complex.

When did I say it's complex? I remember saying that healing has never been overly complex in any game. So how you're getting that I said healing is complex sounds like you're hearing what you want.

[Urthdigger]

I have no problem at all with the dps abilities being there. My problem is with the notion that healers should be more focused on dps than healing. To me it's like getting into your car and being upset that it doesn't have all of the capabilities of a boat or a plane.

No matter what, given how healing works healers should ALWAYS be focused on what they will be doing once healing is done. Unless both you and the tank are at the bare minimum gear and ability barely scraping by the encounter, you can expect to do some "not healing." As you improve at healing you heal faster and more efficiently, allowing for more "not healing."

The core of the question is, what awaits a player when they are done healing? What is the "not healing" comprised of? And seeing as it's what you get to do after excelling at your primary job, ideally it should be rewarding.

A better version of your analogy is that it's like getting into a car and heading to a destination, expecting to just be able to relax and play some games if you arrive early, and instead being told you must stare at a blank wall instead.

[SieyaM]

I will admit to not reading the entire thread but I don't want more damage options for healers, instead I want more support options for healers. Even with the card changes I feel most helpful being AST as a healer since I am doing something for my party the entire time that isnt just throwing around damage spells. Since SE will never actually make a support role I feel they could try to find some way to roll some of the into the healer role and have them support the party more with their down time rather than just having them DPS to fill time.

[Acesfool]

And yet, when asked how many buttons a healer's dps kit should have, everyone who answered gave a response in the same range. ~6-10.

That doesn't change the fact that what one player considers too complex, another might find it to be boringly simple.