se does not understand scholar

[SweetPete]

These sch threads wouldn’t be even seen if sch kept its entire dps kit. In 4.0 all I saw sch doing 90% of the time was casting dps skills and leaving the healing to their fairy and co healer. I can’t tell you how many times I was paired with a sch in 8 man and 24man raids on my ast and they barely did any healing. I’m seeing the same thing now with whm. Most of the ones I’ve been grouped with are doing dps 90% and using only afflatus, plenary and assize to get to misery. All I’m saying is there are healers out there who love the changes and being more healer oriented. However they get bullied and harassed. It’s ok if you find the changes boring. That’s ok. If someone wants to stand there and only heal then it’s ok. It’s doesn’t mean you have to harass and bully them and make them feel horrible because in your mind healers should have a dps rotation. That’s not how it works. It’s not right and it’s not fair to them. “But you’re not utilizing your entire kit that SE gave you so that makes you bad” come on really? When has SE ever said healers are required to dps. They aren’t. It’s not included in fights even savage. It’s bonus yes and that’s fine. “But if you’re just standing there you aren’t doing anything. People pay to play this game and have fun. Point blank period. As a healer I have to utilize my entire kit but the same doesn’t go for tanks and dps? Wall to wall pull and I’m struggling to keep the tank alive because they aren’t using defensive cds much but we have a rdm and the rdm just continues to dps when they have vercure to help me out. The tank dies. Paladin loses aggro and sees I’m taking allot of damage but doesn’t use clemency or cover, I die. They didn’t utilize abilities in their kit. Makes them baddie? Ex primal fight going well. Had some deaths but it’s ok and Everyone dps even healers and still get to enrage and can’t kill it. Must be dps fault since they couldn’t have been using their entire kit to make their damage stronger. SE makes healers more pure healer “oriented” and all I’ve been reading is healers are boring and they suck now. They took away all the dps skills and now they are boring. Well news flash. Some people actually like it and don’t want it to return to the way it was. Some like not having to fish for balance, some like having a powerful dps skill they are rewarded for using their lilies. Some like sch being able to heal allot better and doesn’t mind the dps got gutted. Some don’t like to dps as a healer, some love to dps. Some paladins don’t use clemency or cover and some rdm don’t use vercure. Flooding the forums with SE doesn’t know what they are doing with healers etc... I’m not saying the devs are perfect and I’m sure they will adjust jobs as they see fit. Bringing back all those dps skills to sch will only revert it back to 90% dps as it was and as whm is now. It’s nice to have feedback but when you just straight up harass and bully others to your mindset it is just wrong.

[Hatstand]

Who has been harassing and bullying? The only thing I can think of as coming close is people telling other people they don’t know how to heal because they have stacks leftover, and I don’t even think that really counts. Yes, there’s the stuff in the thread dedicated to the “to dps or not to dps” discussion, but... that’s the point of that thread.

Also, I can’t help but wonder if SCH doing more dps (if that is the case. I have not observed such) wasn’t partially a result of both player preferences. I used to play WHM when I wanted to just heal for a while, and I’m sure others did the same. So, if the WHM is there to heal and focuses on that, there’s less healing left for the SCH. If I look at the party hp bars and everyone is pretty full with a medica 2 HoT on, I’m going to dps instead of overhealing. And that’s not a problem if everyone is happy. The idea that all the healers should be doing the same thing grates against the idea of class identity.

[Nimloth]

These sch threads wouldn’t be even seen if sch kept its entire dps kit. In 4.0 all I saw sch doing 90% of the time was casting dps skills and leaving the healing to their fairy and co healer. I can’t tell you how many times I was paired with a sch in 8 man and 24man raids on my ast and they barely did any healing. I’m seeing the same thing now with whm. Most of the ones I’ve been grouped with are doing dps 90% and using only afflatus, plenary and assize to get to misery. All I’m saying is there are healers out there who love the changes and being more healer oriented. However they get bullied and harassed. It’s ok if you find the changes boring. That’s ok. If someone wants to stand there and only heal then it’s ok. It’s doesn’t mean you have to harass and bully them and make them feel horrible because in your mind healers should have a dps rotation. That’s not how it works. It’s not right and it’s not fair to them. “But you’re not utilizing your entire kit that SE gave you so that makes you bad” come on really? When has SE ever said healers are required to dps. They aren’t. It’s not included in fights even savage. It’s bonus yes and that’s fine. “But if you’re just standing there you aren’t doing anything. People pay to play this game and have fun. Point blank period. As a healer I have to utilize my entire kit but the same doesn’t go for tanks and dps? Wall to wall pull and I’m struggling to keep the tank alive because they aren’t using defensive cds much but we have a rdm and the rdm just continues to dps when they have vercure to help me out. The tank dies. Paladin loses aggro and sees I’m taking allot of damage but doesn’t use clemency or cover, I die. They didn’t utilize abilities in their kit. Makes them baddie? Ex primal fight going well. Had some deaths but it’s ok and Everyone dps even healers and still get to enrage and can’t kill it. Must be dps fault since they couldn’t have been using their entire kit to make their damage stronger. SE makes healers more pure healer “oriented” and all I’ve been reading is healers are boring and they suck now. They took away all the dps skills and now they are boring. Well news flash. Some people actually like it and don’t want it to return to the way it was. Some like not having to fish for balance, some like having a powerful dps skill they are rewarded for using their lilies. Some like sch being able to heal allot better and doesn’t mind the dps got gutted. Some don’t like to dps as a healer, some love to dps. Some paladins don’t use clemency or cover and some rdm don’t use vercure. Flooding the forums with SE doesn’t know what they are doing with healers etc... I’m not saying the devs are perfect and I’m sure they will adjust jobs as they see fit. Bringing back all those dps skills to sch will only revert it back to 90% dps as it was and as whm is now. It’s nice to have feedback but when you just straight up harass and bully others to your mindset it is just wrong.

I'm not opposed to having healing be more demanding, but unfortunately, SE is just not delivering on that front. Currently, in most EX primals I'm spending a lot of time DPSing while only a little bit of healing is needed. This has resulted in me spamming broil III more often than naught. What I don't really understand is why our DPS kit can't be more interesting. DPSing doesn't come at the expense of healing, rather DPSing happens because of people min/max their abilities and avoids overhealing at any cost. If someone doesn't want to DPS, the healing kit is available, no one ever has to touch the DPS kit if they are not inclined to do so.

That being said, It's true that static will require you to DPS and min/max your kit. Even in the current environment that is still happening, even with the DPS abilities being diminished to 2 buttons on boss encounters, statics still require you to DPS. If they happen to increase healing needs throughout the expansion that is fantastic and people will use the DPS kit less. Unfortunately, Culling DPS abilities is just removing an entertaining rotation during healing downtime and punishing people who min/max their abilities.

My main point is that healer is extremely boring for me to play because I spend a good portion of my time DPSing instead of healing since it's not really needed. In the future, if healing needs increase, we will still have an interesting healing kit to use, but that doesn't have to come at the expense of making out DPS rotation boring. A lot of the feedback you are seeing is because people are spending way more time DPSing than healing and until the healing needs increase, this will always be the case. So, ultimately why is it a bad thing to have an interesting DPS kit?

To show you what I mean, in a run of Titania EX I have the following:

112 casts of Broil III
22 casts of Biolysis
30 casts of Ruin II

The fight was approximately 10 minutes long, that means I spent close to 90% of my time using GCDs on DPS abilities.

In terms of healing GCDs I had:

12 casts of succor
5 casts of Physick
8 Adloquiums

Which accounts for about 1o% of my time.

The interesting part is that healing did not come at the expense of damage, as I still healed about the same as the WHM in our party.

I sincerely hope this helps you understand where some of the healers on the forums are coming from.

[Miiu]

Healer for 90% of the content is the only job that gets stripped of its identity the longer content is out.
And yes that isn't a problem SE created that is just an inherent problem that comes with avoidable damage and better gear.

The less healing is required the more we're required to find other ways to keep us busy.

[EaMett]

These sch threads wouldn’t be even seen if sch kept its entire dps kit. In 4.0 all I saw sch doing 90% of the time was casting dps skills and leaving the healing to their fairy and co healer. I can’t tell you how many times I was paired with a sch in 8 man and 24man raids on my ast and they barely did any healing. I’m seeing the same thing now with whm. Most of the ones I’ve been grouped with are doing dps 90% and using only afflatus, plenary and assize to get to misery. All I’m saying is there are healers out there who love the changes and being more healer oriented. However they get bullied and harassed. It’s ok if you find the changes boring. That’s ok. If someone wants to stand there and only heal then it’s ok. It’s doesn’t mean you have to harass and bully them and make them feel horrible because in your mind healers should have a dps rotation. That’s not how it works. It’s not right and it’s not fair to them. “But you’re not utilizing your entire kit that SE gave you so that makes you bad” come on really? When has SE ever said healers are required to dps. They aren’t. It’s not included in fights even savage. It’s bonus yes and that’s fine. “But if you’re just standing there you aren’t doing anything. People pay to play this game and have fun. Point blank period. As a healer I have to utilize my entire kit but the same doesn’t go for tanks and dps? Wall to wall pull and I’m struggling to keep the tank alive because they aren’t using defensive cds much but we have a rdm and the rdm just continues to dps when they have vercure to help me out. The tank dies. Paladin loses aggro and sees I’m taking allot of damage but doesn’t use clemency or cover, I die. They didn’t utilize abilities in their kit. Makes them baddie? Ex primal fight going well. Had some deaths but it’s ok and Everyone dps even healers and still get to enrage and can’t kill it. Must be dps fault since they couldn’t have been using their entire kit to make their damage stronger. SE makes healers more pure healer “oriented” and all I’ve been reading is healers are boring and they suck now. They took away all the dps skills and now they are boring. Well news flash. Some people actually like it and don’t want it to return to the way it was. Some like not having to fish for balance, some like having a powerful dps skill they are rewarded for using their lilies. Some like sch being able to heal allot better and doesn’t mind the dps got gutted. Some don’t like to dps as a healer, some love to dps. Some paladins don’t use clemency or cover and some rdm don’t use vercure. Flooding the forums with SE doesn’t know what they are doing with healers etc... I’m not saying the devs are perfect and I’m sure they will adjust jobs as they see fit. Bringing back all those dps skills to sch will only revert it back to 90% dps as it was and as whm is now. It’s nice to have feedback but when you just straight up harass and bully others to your mindset it is just wrong.

A lot of misinformation here. First of all, to play devils advocate here. If you’re the type of healer who needs HP bars to be full right after damage hits, your sch is going to let you solo heal everything. Even in savage during SB the fairy is something like 30% of your total healing output and that’s when you heal more than your co-healer. The thing is, sch toolkit is designed around healing party up right before the next incoming damage, not right after. A good sch will let the fairy do everything and right before damage hits will top-off/shield. How many times do I run content with healers that crush my fairy HoTs or heal people up right after we take damage, they can solo heal all the content if they’re so desperate, and definitely shouldn’t come here and complain.

Equally, if a whm with the current content is using his Afflatus skills and ogcd heals every chance he gets. He’s pretty much solo healing the content, that’s a far cry from them not healing and only dpsing.

Second piece of misinformation. Healer dps is required during prog and many other situations. Yes, SE test clears content without healer dps but that’s at the average ilvl for the content (not min ilvl) and what I’m assuming to be average skill level (50 percentile). This creates a lot of scenarios where healer dps is so beneficial it’s almost mandatory. (Aka If you’re under-geared or your party skill is more on casual end. It’s hard to complain about your dps contribution being low when your healer dps contribution is nill)
Incidentally, groups that perform well enough that they could get away without having any healer dps contribution would be offended by their healer’s APM and would very much expect them to DPS.


No longer than yesterday was I with friends “farming” ex trials. We had a healer replacement that didn’t dps one bit. The party is a mixed bag of skills but overall the raid dps was pretty low. The healer in question was lovely and none of us felt like boxing him into having to do dps since he voiced he just didn’t want to. Out of 10 runs 7 hit either add or boss enrage. Sure, mistakes were had but it would’ve been 10/10 clear had he participated even only 2k of dps (which is basically keeping dot uptime and throwing a few glares right and left). Although we enjoyed his company and it’s fine for him to play the game as he sees fit (no point paying for a game you don’t enjoy) we most likely will not invite him back without asking him to contribute more.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. If you’re a healer that is either relatively novice, gets overwhelmed, doesn’t enjoy or care for optimization (because casual or other), or simply doesn’t want to dps, then the changes in 5.0 will not affect you much. They might even simplify things for you.
If you’re experienced and/or care to optimize your play (aka are a main/career healer) these changes are a serious nerf to your enjoyment of the role. You can talk all you want about how some people enjoy healers but census and the current healer drought speak volumes about what the player base thinks of the healer changes.

[Hammerhorn]

As long as there are Enrage timers healers will NEED to dps nothing has changed.

[kidalutz]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. If you’re a healer that is either relatively novice, gets overwhelmed, doesn’t enjoy or care for optimization (because casual or other), or simply doesn’t want to dps, then the changes in 5.0 will not affect you much. They might even simplify things for you.
If you’re experienced and/or care to optimize your play (aka are a main/career healer) these changes are a serious nerf to your enjoyment of the role. You can talk all you want about how some people enjoy healers but census and the current healer drought speak volumes about what the player base thinks of the healer changes.

Okay there is no healer drought I dont know what gave you that inkling. Is there alot of Healer wanted queues absolutely but anyone thinking back to HW when Dark was a new thing can recall this was also the case because everyone had to go out and get thier hands on the new shiny tank class and take it out for a spin once the honeymoon period wore off things returned to normal which seems to be the case once again things are stabalizing and actually they're going better now because theres a balance between dps needed healer needed and tank needed bonuses.

[tikiwiki]

Bringing back all those dps skills to sch will only revert it back to 90% dps as it was and as whm is now. It’s nice to have feedback but when you just straight up harass and bully others to your mindset it is just wrong.

you realize how much healing the fairy put out right and how little damage goes out in the game right why would i cast a skill directly when i can use a fairy skill to accomplish the healing and were still dpsing 90% of the time so pruning these skills hasnt changed that so now im just mashing 2 buttons and acomplishing all the needed healing with an ogcd skill

[Myrhn]

As long as there are Enrage timers healers will NEED to dps nothing has changed.

Healers dont need to dps. Blame your DPS for not doing enough damage if u hit enrage

[EaMett]

Okay there is no healer drought I dont know what gave you that inkling. Is there alot of Healer wanted queues absolutely but anyone thinking back to HW when Dark was a new thing can recall this was also the case because everyone had to go out and get thier hands on the new shiny tank class and take it out for a spin once the honeymoon period wore off things returned to normal which seems to be the case once again things are stabalizing and actually they're going better now because theres a balance between dps needed healer needed and tank needed bonuses.

Well AST was also a shiny thing. Anyways, have you even tried recruiting healers for statics? Or posted a LFG as a healer.... It's crazy. If you're a healer looking for a group (esp sch/ast) you will get flooded the first few days and keep getting regular messages every day for weeks after your posting, up until you decide it's too much and go back and delete your buried posting. It's genuine work trying to find a healer at the moment and anyone who's gone through the process will tell you the supply of healers is low.
Roulettes are also mainly healer in need but then again everyone and their dog run roulettes as healers currently for the bonus. Even if they don't play healer for anything else.