se does not understand scholar

[Miiu]

I'm genuinely curious as to WTF these SCHs are doing if they can't use 3 AF charges per minute.
First charge should always be Sacred Soil.
Second should almost always be Excog since theres absolutely no reason to not use it.
[...]

Sure you can have enough AF abilities you can use in order to quickly get rid of the charges so you renew your stack. But the argument is to be made that as of right now none of the fights require to use our abilities this way.
There is no added benefit to quickly getting rid of stacks for the party.

Do I gain anything from popping sacred soil and excog on the tank right when titania is being pulled? I have more use of using recitation and adlo + emergency tactics before the first raid wide aoe hits.

Overall I prefer to use my longer cooldowns when it makes the most sense for me to use them and not just because I can. But different playstyles and all that.

Fights right now are the same as they have ever been. You'll heal alot when everybody is learning a fight but once people figured it out you are back to only healing random screw ups and unavoidable damage. Everything in between can mostly be avoided.
Especially once people gear up. So yes you can sit on 3 stacks without doing a bad job.

In terms of "Balance" I am not saying that perfect balance is something easily obtained but looking at raw numbers or what the job does on paper tells the whole story.
An AST has to work relatively harder to be on the same level a sch is or a whm. Just because of their mechanics they have to fulfill in between.

I don't have the exact numbers at the moment so I'll have to look it up again but in terms of raid utility (rdps they can provide via cards) was lower than what the other two healers can provide by just dpsing themselves.

Admittedly I am bit hazy on the numbers so if I am wrong I am happy to be corrected here.
In regards to people throwing out suggestions to how to fix the job. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it. And I doubt most people here just want SE to add in all the suggestions being made. There are enough threads where thoughtful discussion are based around if a suggestion would be under/overpowered or even a valuable addition.

I mean what else are you gonna do on a forum. People are unhappy. So they're trying to come up with stuff to bridge the time until SE might do something.

[Sylve]

Considering as soon as you and your group learn a boss fight and where the avoidable damage comes from, the absolute need to use all 3 stacks like that diminishes greatly. Especially considering how much mitigation scholars can offer en masse before the room aoe is cast unless its a spam cast (triplecast and the like).
-snip-
Hell, for the Titania fight alone the first phase generally goes (pre-pull shielding and regen) > chain/sacred > excog > broil spam till mist rune in which case I've been sitting on 1 charge since a Lustrate wasn't needed unless the tank is absolutely terrible + my co-heal is usually whm > sacred + succor for flame rune > reapply 3 stacks > repeat as necessary to aid the lightning tether to bring everyone above 50% (usually a fey blessing or ET Succor since she uses her aoe so sparingly).

You don't have to "try" to avoid using AF if the time doesn't call for its use. I'm prone to panicking and popping indoms left and right to top off when I'm new to a fight and learning when the damage is coming, once the fight is learned however, that AF usage drops dramatically to the point its just excog, sacred, blessing, WD, Succor, and Catalyze fishing 95% of the time unless the tank royally effs up somehow and that Lustrate is actually needed.

Replace every use of Succor with an Indom. Saves you a GCD you can spend on Broil instead.
Also, learning the fight makes it easier to expend all 3 charges, not harder. Knowing exactly when an AoE is going out means I can plan to use an Indom over a Succor.
Further, your cohealer would save themselves some work by coordinating you to use Indoms more.
Also, since you mention Catalyze on the Tank, one assumes you're using Adloq. Heres an idea, If you have a charge left over and AF is coming back up .. Maybe DONT Adloq the Tank. Let them take the hit Galvanise would have blocked and justify your Lustrate usage.

And like I said, you can SS twice and Excog twice inside an Aetherflow cooldown. That's 4 potential usages of the 3 Aetherflow charges you get.
Please also remember that Trials/Raids are not the only content in which we heal. Even in an absolutely miracle perfect EX Dungeon run, the party takes unavoidable damage. Waste your spare charge on Indoms and save yourself a GCD.
Ive said before that i'd like the second Healer requirement removed from Trials and raids, as it immediately boosts our healing workload.

For playing a job with a foundation on planning ahead, you sure don't seem to want to plan out Aetherflow usage.

[Dogempire]

This isn't that they don't understand, considering that the job is what they want it to be, it's that there's a conflict in what players want and what squenix wants. I'm under the impression that squenix specifically didn't want offensive aetherflow dumps on sch, and it's possible that they don't think aetherflow should be used on cooldown, this obviously conflicts with what players think, but they made the job, and they are allowed to do what they please with it.

That said, I wish they'd convey what their intentions are.

You have a point there, they can do what they please with it, but if they make the job unappealing then all you're doing is killing off the healing playerbase with unenticing and frankly boring gameplay on one of the only 3 healing jobs in the game.

[Foxkid]

Replace every use of Succor with an Indom. Saves you a GCD you can spend on Broil instead.
Also, learning the fight makes it easier to expend all 3 charges, not harder. Knowing exactly when an AoE is going out means I can plan to use an Indom over a Succor.
Further, your cohealer would save themselves some work by coordinating you to use Indoms more.
Also, since you mention Catalyze on the Tank, one assumes you're using Adloq. Heres an idea, If you have a charge left over and AF is coming back up .. Maybe DONT Adloq the Tank. Let them take the hit Galvanise would have blocked and justify your Lustrate usage.

And like I said, you can SS twice and Excog twice inside an Aetherflow cooldown. That's 4 potential usages of the 3 Aetherflow charges you get.
Please also remember that Trials/Raids are not the only content in which we heal. Even in an absolutely miracle perfect EX Dungeon run, the party takes unavoidable damage. Waste your spare charge on Indoms and save yourself a GCD.
Ive said before that i'd like the second Healer requirement removed from Trials and raids, as it immediately boosts our healing workload.

For playing a job with a foundation on planning ahead, you sure don't seem to want to plan out Aetherflow usage.

Planning ahead means reducing as much damage as possible as a **shield healer** which Scholar just so happens is. Otherwise, there's literally no worthwhile purpose to be overhealing that much if I don't have to. The way you talk is a scholar who wants to be something else because Excog is a safety net and nothing more especially since it won't pop until its off cd or they finally drop below half, sacred is still just 10% at the end of the day regen or not (and exacerbated overhealing when compounded with WD and shielding) and should NOT be used every single moment its off cd if the incoming damage is manageable already in a boss fight (a trash pull is different entirely and will warrant using it every moment since that reduction adds up a lot quicker than a every once in a while tank buster or auto).

And you said to use indom over succor to spam broil even more than I do now? I can literally spam broil all day in an encounter as is without "needing" to waste an AF when its not needed. "My shields broke and the group took 10k damage, let's Indom for potentially 80-100k on overhealing when counting crits instead of just popping blessing or succor for less so and a shield." And why in Hydaelen's green Source would I intentionally choose to let the tank eat an unassisted buster whether or not just to "use a Lustrate"? 9/10 times the tank will already have excog on them. I'm letting them drop to half first unless its a mechanical heavy hit before I do anything of the sort because it'll be a waste until that specific effect is gone (ergo, why waste a delayed and health gated heal just to waste AF on a Lustrate that wasn't needed until then? That's asking for stupid amounts of overhealing for the sake of overhealing unless the tank is undergeared or bad).

Take Innocence and his constant tank swaps for an example now. Righteous Bolt cast > Excog already in effect > catalyze the tank and uniquely here use sacred. The damage in this specific instance even after the excog goes off unless its a DRK throwing on TBN on top of it all (which usually results in them taking 0-1500 damage) will definitely request a necessary Lustrate because the damage is obscene in this matter alone so far. But in Titania and just about all current content (maybe except Titan and his dumb bs), that kind of lazy affair isn't required unless you intentionally gimp yourself down a level to the "casual healer".

Also, further still, my co-healer whm or not does what they will while I do what I will. If heavy group damage is coming in, then yes, indom will be justified along with medica 2 and the AST heal (i don't play the class don't @ me), if just standard run of the mill sabbath (not dual, triple, or enrage cast) is coming in and everyone already has 2 shields in effect, the fairy alone, a WD, or succor is MORE than enough to get them back up that tiny amount and me and my co-heal can continue brainlessly spamming broil/stone/malefic(?) with youtube running in the background.

[Dogempire]

My main gripe with these changes is that there's really no way to tell a good sch apart from a bad one minus how often they can save you when shit hits the fan.

The OK scholars can still easily keep their dots up, but the only difference between the good ones and the OK ones is how much they overheal and how many broils they can squeeze out per minute.

There's no challenge of monitoring your DOTS and refreshing them at the very last second, there's no challenge to making it so that your fairy does almost all of the healing and you can just throw in an ogcd lustrate and keep your rotation going.

Heck there's not even any risk in blowing your Aetherflow stacks on energy drain for more MP instead of keeping your stacks up in case the tank needs extra healing for trash pulls. Heck you can't even bane huge pulls, which used to be a very satisfying skill to use before focusing on keeping the tank up.

The job is a boring husk of its former self with no challenge to healing unless you're either doing savage, doing huge pulls with a tank that doesn't use cds, or the combined IQ of your party members is less than 100. I can't even be bothered to level up the class that I played the last 2 expansions on because of how unengaging healing is now.

They're literally devolved SCH from a mighty tactician capable of balancing healing, damage, and shields to a glorified health babysitter.

[Hatstand]

I'm genuinely curious as to WTF these SCHs are doing if they can't use 3 AF charges per minute.
First charge should always be Sacred Soil.
Second should almost always be Excog since theres absolutely no reason to not use it.

Even if this is true in endgame content (something I'll cannot comment on) it's certainly not true in earlier content. Today I healed a level 50 dunegeon with nothing but fairy cooldowns. I did not spend a single stack and I did not have to. Level 50 content should not play optimally using only 5 buttons, and adding an offensive aetherflow dump would be a start to making older content not feel awful.

[Sylve]

Planning ahead means reducing as much damage as possible as a **shield healer** which Scholar just so happens is. Otherwise, there's literally no worthwhile purpose to be overhealing that much if I don't have to. The way you talk is a scholar who wants to be something else because Excog is a safety net and nothing more especially since it won't pop until its off cd or they finally drop below half, sacred is still just 10% at the end of the day regen or not (and exacerbated overhealing when compounded with WD and shielding) and should NOT be used every single moment its off cd if the incoming damage is manageable already in a boss fight (a trash pull is different entirely and will warrant using it every moment since that reduction adds up a lot quicker than a every once in a while tank buster or auto).

And you said to use indom over succor to spam broil even more than I do now? I can literally spam broil all day in an encounter as is without "needing" to waste an AF when its not needed. "My shields broke and the group took 10k damage, let's Indom for potentially 80-100k on overhealing when counting crits instead of just popping blessing or succor for less so and a shield." And why in Hydaelen's green Source would I intentionally choose to let the tank eat an unassisted buster whether or not just to "use a Lustrate"? 9/10 times the tank will already have excog on them. I'm letting them drop to half first unless its a mechanical heavy hit before I do anything of the sort because it'll be a waste until that specific effect is gone (ergo, why waste a delayed and health gated heal just to waste AF on a Lustrate that wasn't needed until then? That's asking for stupid amounts of overhealing for the sake of overhealing unless the tank is undergeared or bad).

Take Innocence and his constant tank swaps for an example now. Righteous Bolt cast > Excog already in effect > catalyze the tank and uniquely here use sacred. The damage in this specific instance even after the excog goes off unless its a DRK throwing on TBN on top of it all (which usually results in them taking 0-1500 damage) will definitely request a necessary Lustrate because the damage is obscene in this matter alone so far. But in Titania and just about all current content (maybe except Titan and his dumb bs), that kind of lazy affair isn't required unless you intentionally gimp yourself down a level to the "casual healer".

Also, further still, my co-healer whm or not does what they will while I do what I will. If heavy group damage is coming in, then yes, indom will be justified along with medica 2 and the AST heal (i don't play the class don't @ me), if just standard run of the mill sabbath (not dual, triple, or enrage cast) is coming in and everyone already has 2 shields in effect, the fairy alone, a WD, or succor is MORE than enough to get them back up that tiny amount and me and my co-heal can continue brainlessly spamming broil/stone/malefic(?) with youtube running in the background.

Considering all of 2 of our entire repertoire of healing results in a Shield, and they happen to be our single most resource intensive spells, this hardly makes us THE shield healer. Yes, we have shields, Yes, they're useful. But it's hardly our sole defining trait.
Properly planning ahead involves the use of our entire kit. Shields, MP free oGCDs, Fairy, the works.

If you're "wasting" Excog healing, you have failed to properly utilize it. Once its up, the Tank needs no further healing until its gone. Leaving me free to do whatever I want. SS extends this freedom by making it harder to pop it. No need to waste expensive Adloqs on someone who is going to be damn near fully healed at the expiration of the buff.
Sacred Soil should always be up. Always. 10% mitigation for everyone and a Regen is absurdly powerful. There is absolutely no reason not to cast it on cooldown while damage is being taken. If Whispering Dawn is overhealing don't cast it. If you're not going to get the full 21s of Regen out of it, You just wasted it.
Dropping Adloqs on a full HP Tank is stupid anyway. Galvanise should be used to let Embrace go off cleanly behind it. I've never believed in blowing Adloqs on full HP tanks just to take the edge off a buster. Its a waste of MP because you only get half the healing from it.
Let the buster happen, park an Adloq as it lands to restore the missing HP and let Eos get a couple of Embraces in while the Shield is blocking the auto attack followups. If the Buster is going to put the Tank into critical HP or dead without 12k~ shield, someone is doing something very wrong.

And yes, I will propose you use Indom over Succor if you have charges. To use your own example of 10k damage breaking past your shields, Indom is 400p. Same as Physick. At i440, that's a 13k~ non crit. Indom is a very viable free alternative to the incredibly expensive Succor. The overhealing will be absolutely minimal if you're so paranoid about that.

For your Innocence example, why the hell would you actively make it harder for Excog to pop and do its job by Catalyzing the Tank? All you've done is waste 30 - 40k of healing from Excog and spend 1000mp you didn't have to. AND a GCD better spent on damage.
Take a step up into Eden, where the Tankbusters are hitting Tanks for 80k~. Great, you've successfully Catalyzed the tank for 38k~ and you'll then need to heal the 42k that made it through, manually, without the benefit of an active shield to absorb further autos. Or you just Excog, let the tank eat the 80k, insta pop the 30k Excog and then land a Catalyze afterwards restoring 15k and letting Eos Embrace (and SS Regen) behind the 40k Shield.

This is what I mean by properly planning ahead. Knowing exactly how much damage a given attack will do and preparing the appropriate response to that to minimize overhealing and resource waste. Think outside the box a little.


As a fun aside, I can do EX Dungeons with overgeared Tanks, utilize all AF charges and Aetherflow on cooldown and walk out with barely any overheal just by knowing how much damage a given thing will do and which one of my spells is most suited to responding to it.


Also... Wait, are you proud of the fact that you and your co-healers just do whatever you want each without any kind of communication or attempt at synergy?

Even if this is true in endgame content (something I'll cannot comment on) it's certainly not true in earlier content. Today I healed a level 50 dunegeon with nothing but fairy cooldowns. I did not spend a single stack and I did not have to. Level 50 content should not play optimally using only 5 buttons, and adding an offensive aetherflow dump would be a start to making older content not feel awful.

Old content is outdated in terms of design. Our jobs change but the dungeons are static and tuned for what the gameplay was like back then. Its like going back to sub 30~ dungeons and not needing more than a cure every 20 odd seconds lol.

[SweetPete]

Replying to Connor.
I love what you said. It’s exactly how I feel. I think SE mistake was taking so long to remove sch dps kit so of course the player base got use to it. Sch was never intended to be a hybrid healer. People keep saying that and I never heard Yoshi P or anyone from square say that it was. I’ve always been a healer in every mmo I play. I love healing. All people talk about is damage damage damage. Now I’m not against healers dps let’s get that straight first. It’s fun and exciting. I love helping my team get the job done faster. I would not call sch boring. It’s actually very good now. My issue with sch back in the day is it didn’t have enough healing attached to it. Finally now it does. Solo healing is less of a headache and it’s shields are top notch along with seraph. I love it. In dungeons it’s very fun. Art of war is fun to use. I love being in tank and melee range helping out while still throwing out lustrates on my tank to build my fey gauge. No idea why people are saying it’s boring. Whm’s weren’t all over the forums crying for 4 years about dps. They just wanted a little party support. Now with misery they are a damage machine and that’s ok. It’s their reward for using lilies. Let them have that. I’m very happy in the direction they are taking sch. Let us be more healing with crazy op shields and a healing pet. The aetherflow dump is ok I guess for people that want it but I’m not sure why. In a dungeon run I recitation and excog and shield the tank at the start. Pull wall to wall then I throw down a SS and lustrate the tank as he’s probably half health then. I use aetherflow again. Dps while lustrating the tank. Not sure how people have 2-3 aetherflows left to dump. I mean sometimes I do if the tank is really good at utilizing their defensive cds and our dps doesn’t get hit by aoes. Usually I run out of aetherflows just from excog, SS alone. Sch has been very fun so far and I’m hoping they stick to their guns and not give us back allot of dps abilities. An aetherflow dump will be fine as it’s what most sch are asking for so give them that but keep our dps.

[SweetPete]

I mean, do you think that '' healers '' are all this big collective of people who all agree with each other?
The whole dps issue in regards to healing in FFXIV altogether has a lot of different sides and opinions.

No one here speaks on behalf of '' healers '' in FFXIV, we're just a handful of people on the internet.
And people who have issues are far more likely to speak about it because the people who aren't having issues have no reason to sit around complaining about it on the forums they're just enjoying the game.

I don't disagree with most of the issues that people are having, but people shouldn't think that they're these spokespeople on behalf of the '' healer community '' or whatever.
And I am saying this as someone who's extremely disappointed with how they've handled MNK too, but I am not going to sit here and proclaim to speak on behalf of MNK's and that I know what most people want.

Yes I wholeheartedly agree. I see so many people saying “What all scholar healers want”

I think if you are writing a post then don’t include every sch player. Just talk about your dislikes and leave feedback based on your own experience and disappointments. Now if there are many on the forums then yes you can reference them but not the whole community. That’s not right of fair.

[SweetPete]

[QUOTE=Sylve;5088482]I'm genuinely curious as to WTF these SCHs are doing if they can't use 3 AF charges per minute.
First charge should always be Sacred Soil.
Second should almost always be Excog since theres absolutely no reason to not use it.

Honestly,

I’ve been scratching my head trying to figure that one out myself lol. When the dungeon starts I use recitation+ excog+adlo the tank. Pull wall to wall and throw down SS then dps until tank gets to maybe half then lustrate. AF will be coming off CD anyway then I use it again and use lustrates to build my feh gauge as I dps to help my team out then before all mobs die I use dissipation to get 3 aetherflow back. Repeat my recitation+excog+adlo for the next set of wall to wall mobs. Only this time I will have allot of fey gauge to use fey union. So I do that and lustrate in between because the tank still takes damage and fey union sometimes ticks and sometimes don’t so I make sure as I am dps I am watching the tank. Throw down the SS too. As I said in my last post. If the tank is really good at utilizing their cds then that’s when I see myself with some aetherflow left over. It’s usually 1. Never 2-3. So like you I’m not sure how either.