Reminder that war is still good.

[Izsha]

Why does war siddenly 'need' to get rid of eyes 3gcds when it has been fine with it for 5 years? The other tabks always had faster ramp so that didnt change either so war isnt any more relatively slow than ever before.

Xeno says it and suddenly its a problem? No one has mentioned this 'problem' in 5 years until a youtube personality said it. If you want to change it, then articulate some reasons WHY. Dont just parrot stuff someone else said.

[Atreides]

Why does war siddenly 'need' to get rid of eyes 3gcds when it has been fine with it for 5 years? The other tabks always had faster ramp so that didnt change either so war isnt any more relatively slow than ever before.

Xeno says it and suddenly its a problem? No one has mentioned this 'problem' in 5 years until a youtube personality said it. If you want to change it, then articulate some reasons WHY. Dont just parrot stuff someone else said.

I don't know where your 5 years come from but the Eye was added to the 3rd combo in Stormblood, before that the effect was applied by maim which is our 2nd GCD.
Eye became an issue now because the combo effect of Mythril Tempest is mocking us with the increased timer on Eye, which makes us the only tanks that have to worry about applying their buff in mob groups where as others don't have to.
Now that every tank has AoEs WAR feels cluncky with the Eye effect where other tanks just do it with either a buff or a OGCD.

[Izsha]

I don't know where your 5 years come from but the Eye was added to the 3rd combo in Stormblood, before that the effect was applied by maim which is our 2nd GCD.
Eye became an issue now because the combo effect of Mythril Tempest is mocking us with the increased timer on Eye, which makes us the only tanks that have to worry about applying their buff in mob groups where as others don't have to.
Now that every tank has AoEs WAR feels cluncky with the Eye effect where other tanks just do it with either a buff or a OGCD.

Ive been here since 2.0 playing war the entire time. War had the slashing buff on eye before they swapped it with maim. You ALWAYS had a full 3gcd combo ramp up since this game has existed. It used to he to get slashing and damage buff, then just damage buff.

Other tabks have ALWAYS had an ogcd to get up and running. Pld never had a ranp up. Even in 2.0 it was fof and 1 rage of halone. There was no ramp. Boom go while war was eye combo. Drk has never had a ranp. Darkside used to be an always on buff before the fight. Now you have to hit an ogcd to turn it on. The only job that got slower to apply their buff is drk because darkside isnt on before engaging.

So your logic is that eye is 'clunky" because other tabks have an ogcd. But that has literrally always been the case. It was clunky last month, last year, and 5 years ago but no one noticed or cared until xeno said it. Now its a 'problem'.

The aoe argument is even worse because war, againx has always been the job trying to manage a st combo with aoe. But now its easier because you can extend it. War got LESS clunky in aoe thanks to tempest extending eye and giv8ng gauge.

[Reynhart]

So your logic is that eye is 'clunky" because other tabks have an ogcd. But that has literrally always been the case. It was clunky last month, last year, and 5 years ago but no one noticed or cared until xeno said it. Now its a 'problem'.

I'm far from a top level WAR but my feeling is that Eye started to felt clunky when Path receive the additionnal gauge, thus giving the feeling that applying Eye "reduced" your DPS by delaying your next Fell Cleave. The more I think about it, the more I feel that the completely-awesome-over-the-top-Fell-Cleave brought WAR into this uncomfortable position that this is the only skill that matters.

On a sidenote, as a main DRK, I'd take maintaning DArkside with a 3-step combo any day just for breaking our 1-2-3 rotation over and over.

[Chrono_Rising]

Snip

I'm not saying I agree. But, I can also see where people are coming from on this. Yes, historically warrior has always had a 3 combo wind up to aoe. But, historically warrior also had the best aoe of the tanks, and the trade off we thought was the wind up. But I am not sure this is the case anymore. I think that is the clunk that people are grappling with currently. Is the wind up worth it to be 3rd best in aoe?

[Kabooa]

I'm not saying I agree. But, I can also see where people are coming from on this. Yes, historically warrior has always had a 3 combo wind up to aoe. But, historically warrior also had the best aoe of the tanks, and the trade off we thought was the wind up. But I am not sure this is the case anymore. I think that is the clunk that people are grappling with currently. Is the wind up worth it to be 3rd best in aoe?

I'm like half certain IR Decimate, IF Chaos, and Nascent Flash still win out an easy first place.

[Chrono_Rising]

I'm like half certain IR Decimate, IF Chaos, and Nascent Flash still win out an easy first place.

Can you offer something to support your half certain? Also Nascent Flash isn't damage its HP restore so not sure how that is a factor here. I agree warrior has some powerful aoe options. For example IR spam is about 2342 factoring in direct hit and crit. Paladin magic spam over the same number of GCDs is 2700 potency before crits and direct hits and its up more often. Then you need to compare that with boosted physical combo also up every minute as well as circle of scorn. Paladin has some nice aoe.

[Chrono_Rising]

No edit option on phone. Potencies reported are per target. The only reason I can guess Nascent Flash is mentioned is to try to bring in a variable about healer dps I would imagine.

[Kabooa]

Can you offer something to support your half certain? Also Nascent Flash isn't damage its HP restore so not sure how that is a factor here. I agree warrior has some powerful aoe options. For example IR spam is about 2342 factoring in direct hit and crit. Paladin magic spam over the same number of GCDs is 2700 potency before crits and direct hits and its up more often. Then you need to compare that with boosted physical combo also up every minute as well as circle of scorn. Paladin has some nice aoe.

I'm honestly too tired to do math.

That said, I did forget that Paladin has absurd AoE now, but the two should be pretty even in practical scenarios.

[Izsha]

I'm not saying I agree. But, I can also see where people are coming from on this. Yes, historically warrior has always had a 3 combo wind up to aoe. But, historically warrior also had the best aoe of the tanks, and the trade off we thought was the wind up. But I am not sure this is the case anymore. I think that is the clunk that people are grappling with currently. Is the wind up worth it to be 3rd best in aoe?

2 points.

1. Not all the rise of eye complaints are about aoe. Some cite single target ramp up as unfair because other tanks have no ramp. "4 gcds if you count tomahawk" in the post i responded to for example. So the loss of aoe damage trade off is wholely irrelivant here. This ramp up in single target has ALWAYS been there between eye and slashing you always had to setup 3 gcds to be at full power at all points in 14s history and other tanks had functionally zero.

2. If eye is 'clunky' (in aoe) because war was designed to have stronger aoe and eye was compensation, and war no longer has the aoe damage to justify eye then there is a simple solution to that. Increase wars aoe damage to restore that tradeoff. The alternative is the always hated homogenization. "I dont have what other tanks have so gimme" just means all tanks end up with 1 combo and insta damage buffs. If aoe damage is to lacking to justify the expense of putting eye up, then dont remove eye. Return war to the state that no one thought eye was a problem instead.

Persoanlly i dont think it is an issue because you can put up eye 2-3x per dungeon with the extensions built in, and in raid scenarios you never just go cold turkey into an aoe phase and should already have eye anyway. But if the masses really feel war aoe is a problem then by all means adjust it. Dont trim down the simplest job with the fewest actions to arr 123+flash paladin. Just because other tanks dont have a ramp up doesnt mean the solution is to make war even more like every other tank when there are still active threads complaining about drk having 1 combo and simplifying their aoe rotation. 1 combo wonders for even more tanks, ill pass. If this really must be considered a problem at all, there are far more elegant solutions.