Pulling the bosses In dungeons as DPS a thing now?

[Kanitezz]

Countdowns really aren't necessary in a dungeon like that. I've been leveling DPS lately and I actually appreciate it more when a tank just gets straight to it so I can better maintain my stacks.

[Takamorisan]

Well given that Tanks are just DPS with a simplified rotation now. No wonder the DPS just started pulling stuff.

[cjparmen]

The "Tanks are better" rhetoric would hold more weight if tanks didn't just turn into discount melee over the expansions.

i hate to admit it but you are right -_-, how ever it hasent just been since the shB expan that this has been happening, i would say since SB when the meta shifted form " do your job" ( ie tank holds agro and healers heal with a side of dps) to everyone MUST DPS. and that community mind set cleary shows in ShB seein as now all the tanks are little more then well armored DPS now.

[Mardel]

I've played most roles in this game. Most of my raid endeavors have always been as a DPS. Now since I've been tanking more... at the start of a dungeon I always ask "big pull or small"? If they don't care I'll do a big one at the start and see how it is handled.

The key thing is... I am always sprinting to my next set of monsters to pull and rarely am I sticking around for a last hit. I know that by being fast, I give my dps more chances to have their buffs up and kill faster. Killing faster in turns makes me take less dmg and that in turn means less healing. If a person pulls before me, so what? I don't care. That means I'm likely going too slow for their liking. If the healer has been keeping up with all their heals, then what is the issue?

As a tank my job is to tank, not cry or moan because the dps pulled. Only if the healer is struggling will I say anything, that or if the entire group is new players.

[Lilyth]

Given the amount of straw man thrown in here, I really wasn't looking forward to reply to this. But here we go anyway.

As someone who mained a BRD for four years before recently switching mains to DRK, and actually using those four years to properly learn DPS gameplay and even clearing a lot of high-end content, all I can say is this.
This kind of thinking is DPS Arrogance in its finest.

It was a nice try to to use the same phrasing as people did prior, but here is why it falls flat: The mindset presented comes from a tank. I've actually played all roles on SB, but mostly tanks. So there is no DPS "arrogance" in here. This is actually about Tank humility. I'm only asking other tanks to behave like any other member instead of believing they are kings. Clearly a lot of people here have a problem with that.

Our job as a DPS is to support the tank and healer by burning down enemies ASAP.
While I agree that DPS pulling bosses is only a minor inconvenience, when DPS start behaving arrogantly and start pulling additional mobs that the tanks/healers don't want to deal with at the moment, then yeah, the tank/healer deserves to let that DPS die.
Why? Because that DPS is being full of himself/herself by thinking that they lead the party, when that job belongs to the tank. In other words, DPS that try to steal the tank's job ARE NOT playing their role properly... and in my opinion, deserves to be kicked more than an angry tank that just wants to do their job in peace.

Wow, calm down there. The DPS role job is to support the party, just like healers and tanks. But they do so by dealing as much damage as possible. I find it amusing how you put it though, like the DPS are subordinates to the one "true roles". Are you serious right now? You gotta be trolling at this point. People love to say that if the Healer or Tank dies, the run is over... but if a DPS die, well, it's just a minor inconvenience. Interestingly, though, this kinda of mentality is exclusive to the DutyFinder dungeons. Why? Because the moment an enrage mechanic is implemented, you start to see these kinda of players vanish out since in order to actually play these kinds of contents, you need to play optimally as a team, which means respecting every role on the same standard, including the DPS. If you let a DPS die because they touched an ADD before you to keep uptime, the whole party is susceptible to wiping to the enrage. A tank with that mentality would be kicked in an instant.

Second part of this, all straw man. It's obvious, if any member of the group starts doing things recklessly, including but not restricted to DPS pulling mobs with the intent of ruining the run, they are in the wrong. No one here is saying DPS are above team cooperation. What people are defending, though, is that neither are tanks and healers. The DPS who pulled because they wanted to keep their buffs up is one hundred times more worth keeping than the tank that got angry solely because their ego got hurt and couldn't bother to push a button to re-stabilish aggro 'cause "uh muh feelings". This is not an opinion by the way, this is a fact.

So for any DPS with that kind of arrogance, heed my words as a fellow DPS:
Do your dang job and learn your place. In the end, tanks and healers have insta-queues; you do NOT.

Once the DRK and GNB hype dies down lets see how long you will still have that mentality.

And here we are again, the central point of the whole argument where everything comes down to: I have insta queue, you do not. When there's no more feasible way you could possible hide the fact this is indeed about hurt ego, the inevitable proof comes to surface. People believe they are superior just because of a slight, circunstancial advantage over one of their party members.

And suitably, for every content where queuing time is not a factor, also read as content that requires some level of skill and cooperation, this problem does not exist.

[Vulcann]

Just one pack, huh?

Yep i pull safely, omg you might have to spend an extra 3-5 minutes in the dungeon. if you see me feel free to go back to the 10 minute DPS queue.

[Vulcann]

i hate to admit it but you are right -_-, how ever it hasent just been since the shB expan that this has been happening, i would say since SB when the meta shifted form " do your job" ( ie tank holds agro and healers heal with a side of dps) to everyone MUST DPS. and that community mind set cleary shows in ShB seein as now all the tanks are little more then well armored DPS now.

till i see DPSers reliably hold agro, and not die to bosses on current content without having godlike gear. the whole idea that tanks are just "discount dps" is absurd. has tanking becoming easier? yeah definitely holding agro is easier than ever but i had no problem holding agro in the past. maybe some of you had problems because you were DPS stance 90% of the time.

[Kabooa]

Yep i pull safely, omg you might have to spend an extra 3-5 minutes in the dungeon. if you see me feel free to go back to the 10 minute DPS queue.

No, I'll go pull the pack. And when you let me die to teach me my place, I'll stop healing you to teach you yours.

[battleshadow66]

till i see DPSers reliably hold agro, and not die to bosses on current content without having godlike gear. the whole idea that tanks are just "discount dps" is absurd. has tanking becoming easier? yeah definitely holding agro is easier than ever but i had no problem holding agro in the past. maybe some of you had problems because you were DPS stance 90% of the time.

Currently you really are discount dps, aggro is now braindead easy to hold and everything else you do is incredible straightforward. It's not absurd, it's now the truth.

[Machka]

As others have said, aggro is so easy now that there is no reason to sweat someone getting ahead of a tank in normal dungeons.
I can see healers, or maybe the other dps, feeling upset by a dps early pull throwing a wrench in their plans, but as a tank our rotations are always fairly simple and we can pretty much grab aggro spamming any button with our (zero penalty) tank stance on.
Gone are the days when an early pull might force a tank to fall behind their rotation/opener as they desperately spam Overpower or some other one-button enmity move to catch up.

Many tanks see themselves as the de facto 'leaders' of the party. As a tank main, the way I see it is this:

If people are running ahead of me, that means I'm not running fast enough. If people wanna go all out, I should be ready to go all out.
If I'm not ready to go as hard as the other people on my team, what right do I have to say I am leading it?

Our job as tanks is to hold aggro and help kill everything as quickly as possible while making the healer's job as consistent/predictable as possible. That means being ready to be the first one to die. If someone dies before me because they have aggro on something, I've done something wrong. To deliberately let someone keep aggro and die is a complete abandonment of our responsibilities as a tank.

If you want to be the leader, you need to lead. Do your job, or someone else is gonna do it for you.
If you want to be a tank, you need to tank. Do your job, or someone else is gonna do it for you.

Being a leader is a responsibility, not a right. It's about taking care of your teammates and doing everything you can to make the team successful, not having things go exactly the way you think they should.
If someone pulls more than you did, they are saying they think you guys can handle it. They may be right, they may be wrong, but it doesn't matter now because there is no reversing course on aggro. Once mobs are pulled, they'll be attacking until either they die or you all die. Are you going to do your job and tank, or are you going to sit back and complain/feel wronged?

If you don't step up to your responsibilities as a tank or leader, you are failing at your job.
A lot of players who run on tank roles don't seem to understand this, instead acting as if they have special status and only need to do things if they feel like it. That is the "tank entitlement" that many people are talking about.