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  1. #10
    Player
    EaMett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,430
    Character
    Ea Sin
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nethereal View Post
    You ask that but the exact same point applies to dps. I only brought it up because you brought up dps they're just even factors they're equal but you seem to think of healing as being the side mechanic of lilies.
    Ok lets get this out of the way. Healing is capped by keeping people alive. The less healing you can do while keeping everyone alive, the better. This is because anything more than this is essentially unnecessary. DPS on the other hand is not capped, and the more dps you provide the faster things die the less you need to heal the less likely you are to hit enrage. It also helps with un-healable mistakes people may make (like OS missed mechanics) by providing backup dps they should be making.
    Moving on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nethereal View Post
    You're completely ignoring the fact they're resource free that fact alone already makes them incomparable to swiftcasted spells. Regardless of that misery is still only 50% of the mechanic whether you like it or not. While the other half is resource free instant healing with yes the advantage to weave.
    Currently completely irrelevant. Mana was never an issue for WHM and although it was one for SCH in dungeons the recent AoW change was enough to highly minimize this. SCH has no mana issues in other content though... Not even close to needing more than 20% of our mana. It's also a difficult comparison because SCH was built around the concept of not being able to do much without stacks whereas WHM is perfectly viable in all departments without lilies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nethereal View Post
    You clearly know that not all weaves are offensive so I don't see why you separated 1 and 3 considering they're the exact same. And again you ignore the healing because of bias and the fact it's a completely free resource. Healing in this game is predictable but even with that it still is equal to dps by definition. You're not going to be clearing any current content fights without some form of healing and vice versa. Lilies by design are supposed to represent the balance between healing and dps but you seem either unwilling or unable to see that due to your bias towards dps. Even if you combined the fact that optimization on healers is largely to increase dps up time the point still stands and you'll never get around that.
    I think the issue lies here, I'll go more in detail in the next quote but if you can't separate 1 and 3 then it is either a communication issue on my end or a lack of understanding on yours. 1 never even makes a distinction between healing and dps OGCDs because it's all the same.
    OGCDs are a dps loss by nature (kinda). The basic use of an OGCD is by clipping your GCD. Because they have an animation time it offsets your next GCD cast and delays your damage. This creates a dps loss. Weaving an OGCD into another instant skill with appropriate levels of damage (bold for emphasis) is therefore a dps gain compared to glare + clip because you have no loss from the animation (it fits in the gcd window)

    This is completely different from 3 which is a mention that it is possible to execute your job (healing AND DPS when talking about afflatus) while moving. They're two very separate things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nethereal View Post
    Except you're talking about an impossibility so it's irrelevant. If AF didn't heal it would do something else, like on smn. And you seem to not be able to do math either because misery requires 4 gcds before it can even be used and just some simple math you would be able to tell 4x glare is 1200 potency versus misery's 900. The purpose of misery is to refund your dps lost during healing, healing. Why do you not understand this? If you took the healing out afflatus and didn't change misery it would never be used, did you not think about this at all? Strictly speaking using misery is a dps loss the only reason misery is even used is because it heals and refunds the dps lost for doing it, why are you so biased you are unable to see this? Can you not see the balance between dps and healing from the way lilies function alone? The reason misery is a dps gain is because the time you would spend healing is recovered from the three HEALING lilies used prior to using misery.
    AF used to do something else and we wouldn't be having this conversation if it still did.

    This is where your math falls short. Misery is 900 pot, Glare is 300 pot. Because you need 4 GCDs for misery that's 225 pot per afflatus GCD.
    Now when it comes to OGCDs, lets consider a standard .8s animation time. You have bene, tetra, assize, asylum. Assize should be used on cooldown. And never delayed more than 10s if even that. Depending on your healer comp asylum and tetra should also be used pretty close to their cooldown times.

    With that in mind we can already say that even if you 100% overheal your afflatus skills, when mobile and unable to cast anything else, it's your most potent DPS skill. If you're running around not being able to cast (titan car mode in eden)? Just spam your afflatus rapture or solace, that's as if you were a SCH casting Ruin II.

    Now, what if you're stationary and can cast glare? If you clip your glare to use your ogcds (Lets say you only need to use one ogcd). That's 300 potency over the span of 3.3 s (2.5 gcd and .8 clip animation). That's 300/3.3 = 90 potency per second. Compare that to an afflatus skill + clip where the clip animation fits within the gcd: 225/2.5 = 90 potency per second. You're falling exactly even. This can turn into a DPS gain if you have a relatively high ping, if you cast Misery on more than one target (which btw would be so massive it would be a dps gain over just glare with no clips) or if you cast misery during a buff window.

    What if you need to use two ogcds (assize and tetra for example)? That would be glare + 2 clip > 300/4.1 = 73 potency per second vs 225/2.5 = 90 potency per second. It's a dps gain by a significant margin.
    The rule here is that you should always cast afflatus skills before your ogcds, in the worst case scenario it's just the same as clipping but in many others it's a dps gain.

    And this is without even looking at the healing component. Hence why I said you would still use this suit of skills even if they didn't heal. You would just use them as a better version of SCH Ruin II. But the gameplay would be essentially the same.

    If you are stationary and have nothing to weave you'd have absolutely no reason to use afflatus if it weren't for misery.

    Afflatus is a DPS uptime tool, that's all it is. The fact that it heals just means it's easier to use, but the healing is secondary to the DPS component. As I've explained before, it's made obvious from the fact that removing misery would be more detrimental than removing the healing.
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    Last edited by EaMett; 07-19-2019 at 03:44 AM.