BRD 5.0 Feedback, Suggestions, and Requests

[infinitestory]

Hi, Bard main at a high level since 4.0 here. Here's my list of things I'd like to see changed to help improve the depth and QoL of Shadowbringers Bard:

QoL requests first:

• Apex Arrow’s fill sound is the same as Pitch Perfect’s. This causes misfires frequently during Wanderer’s Minuet phases. Please change it! I hear Bards complain about this multiple times a day!

• Also, Apex Arrow’s Soul Voice Gauge replaces the Straight Shot gauge, but unlike the Straight Shot gauge, it is NOT detachable from the Song Gauge! Please change this as well!

Gameplay change requests:

• Bring back Foe Requiem, in some form.

• With the release of Shadowbringers, Bard has less team utility than ever. It seems that the class is still balanced around being a medium utility provider, but it now has arguably lower class-specific utility than even MNK, with Brotherhood being stronger for damage and Mantra being AoE Minne.

• With the removal of Refresh and the addition of a charge system, it seemed Shadowbringers would be the perfect time to also rework Foe Requiem. However, it was instead outright removed, and now Bard gets literally nothing at level 58.

• Ideally, Foe would be brought back as an oGCD that either spends half mana or is on a charge system, and applies a minor vulnerability debuff to a single target.

• Apex Arrow is too weak in single target, and is a generally uninteresting design when there are many interesting designs that would require only minor tweaks.

• Currently, Apex Arrow provides less single-target DPS than Sidewinder, because it costs a GCD every use. It basically should only be used at full gauge. In fact, it’s certainly weaker than Quick Nock until 35 gauge, and weaker than Burst Shot until 55 gauge (since it can’t grant Straight Shot Ready), so it’s unclear why Apex is even usable at 20 gauge. It’s not an intuitive skill at all. Being able to use it at 20 gauge is a trap for beginner players.

• Because Apex is unpredictable, has no effects besides damage, and is used so infrequently, it doesn’t significantly change gameplay in single-target raid scenarios. Bard only gains 3 skills this expansion, and two of them are just twists on existing skills which barely affect gameplay. There is room for Apex to introduce new elements to Bard gameplay, but it doesn’t.

• Here are some ways Apex Arrow could have had more interesting design. To be clear, I don’t want all of these to happen, but ANY ONE of these would have made it much more interesting:

• Make it an oGCD. This allows Apex Arrow to always have the same potency per gauge value, so it can be saved for Raging Strikes, buff phases, or Adds phases more easily.

• Change the potency scaling so that the potency per gauge value is constant when accounting for the GCD cost. In math terms, the value of a Burst Shot is ~258.5 potency, so if the potency is X at 20 gauge, it should be 5 * (X - 258.5) + 258.5 at 100 gauge. This also allows it to be used flexibly, without taking it off the GCD.

• Double the gauge fill rate. This makes Apex feel more valuable on a single target. It also makes it less optimal to hold a fully-charged Apex Arrow for as many as 25 seconds for an upcoming adds phase.

• Add a cap on the gauge usage, ideally around 40. This would, of course, require increasing the potency as well so that it is even worth using in single-target. This solution would allow us flexibility in using Apex Arrow, and maybe even use it to manipulate GCDs before Barrage or Iron Jaws.

• Bard didn’t receive any charge skills, despite being a class whose number one characteristic is flexibility.

• Bloodletter was one of the top candidates in the entire game to receive charges prior to Shadowbringers. Straight Shot Ready and Empyreal Arrow would also be good candidates.

• Bloodletter charges in particular would make Bard feel much smoother during Mage’s Ballad, especially in AOE situations. There don’t seem to be technical limitations on this, since classes like Summoner and Machinist use creative ways of granting and representing charges.

• Empyreal Arrow charges would help compensate for the lack of Skill Speed scaling, which causes its cooldown to slide against the GCD. It would also get rid of the feels-bad situation where the Soul Voice Gauge fills up right as EA comes off cooldown, where the right play is to use EA and ignore the overcapped gauge.

• Bard has multiple places in the rotation where it benefits them to delay an oGCD after pressing a GCD, which is unintuitive.

• Wanderer’s Minuet should be delayed when transitioning from Army’s Paeon, so that the next GCD is sooner and it is possible to receive 5 GCDs of benefit from Army’s Muse. It also lines up the end of the song better with the GCD timer, due to Army’s Muse.

• Raging Strikes should be delayed within any GCD where it is used, so that the next GCD is sooner and it is possible to have 9 GCDs under the effect.

• Both of these could potentially be solved by making making the buffs last longer. 1s longer duration for each would mostly solve the issue, without significantly increasing the strength of either one.

[Cetonis]

Big fan of balance mentors and guide writers putting thought-out feedback on the OF.

Agree with most of the concerns, a few alternative ideas:

:: Giving Battle Voice a second charge would functionally turn it into what a prospective Foe + charges would be, without re-adding a skill and without being as much of a buff.

:: Making Muse last 15s would also mitigate the GCD delay nonsense, and would be less-weird of a change than 21s Raging.

But yes, Apex fill sound effect is maddening. They could make it Viera Voice 7 for all I care. Just make it anything else.

[Beddict]

I like the ideas listed. There are three additional changes I would like to see:

1. Let Bard benefit from Battle Voice. Monk benefits from Brotherhood, Dragoon benefits from Battle Litany, Red Mage benefits from Embolden, Astrologian benefits from Divination, Dancer benefits from Technical Step. It irks me to see Bard not get the same functionality of other Jobs when it comes to raidwide damage buffs.
2. Make Nature's Minne AoE. It has the same healing buff as Mantra, it has the same duration as Mantra, and it has the same recast time as Mantra. However, Nature's Minne is single-target and Mantra is AoE. Being able to use Nature's Minne at a range of 30y does not make up for how little utility it provides in comparison, especially since Mantra is on a selfish DPS.
3. Buff Repertoire proc rate at lower levels. This obviously isn't relevant for level 80 content, but it drove me up the wall when I was leveling Bard through Roulettes and it still drives me up the wall when I use Bard for Roulettes to get Goetia and eventually Phantasmagoria Tomestones. Having only a 20% proc rate for Repertoire feels real bad, and I don't think it goes up to 40% until we get Bite Mastery at level 64. Having our Job barely function during level synced content just isn't fun.

[Raldo]

I love all of the suggestions here. It feels like they made their BRD tweaks without looking at the new things they did with MCH/DNC.

The charged action system seemed SO PERFECT for Bard's Bloodletter/Rain of Death, so it was quite a shock when I found out that it wasn't. Finally, a double-repertoire proc could affect Mages Ballad! But nope, it doesn't hold multiple charges.

Apex Arrow would be infinitely better if it functioned like MCH's Rook/Queen (an oGCD that burns the entire gauge), or like DNC's Saber Dance (a GCD that burns 50 gauge with a static potency), but instead we got the worst of both worlds.

Here's my suggestion that I haven't seen yet:
Make Empyreal Arrow a charged action. No longer must you fruitlessly hit Empyreal Arrow during a full-repertoire stack of Army's Paeon! Save it for Wanderer's Minuet without it being a DPS loss!

Having only a 20% proc rate for Repertoire feels real bad, and I don't think it goes up to 40% until we get Bite Mastery at level 64. Having our Job barely function during level synced content just isn't fun.

Hooooooooooly shit! I thought it felt like my procs were SUPER LOW in synced content, but I just assumed I was imagining things.

[infinitestory]

I like the ideas listed. There are three additional changes I would like to see:

1. Let Bard benefit from Battle Voice. Monk benefits from Brotherhood, Dragoon benefits from Battle Litany, Red Mage benefits from Embolden, Astrologian benefits from Divination, Dancer benefits from Technical Step. It irks me to see Bard not get the same functionality of other Jobs when it comes to raidwide damage buffs.
2. Make Nature's Minne AoE. It has the same healing buff as Mantra, it has the same duration as Mantra, and it has the same recast time as Mantra. However, Nature's Minne is single-target and Mantra is AoE. Being able to use Nature's Minne at a range of 30y does not make up for how little utility it provides in comparison, especially since Mantra is on a selfish DPS.
3. Buff Repertoire proc rate at lower levels. This obviously isn't relevant for level 80 content, but it drove me up the wall when I was leveling Bard through Roulettes and it still drives me up the wall when I use Bard for Roulettes to get Goetia and eventually Phantasmagoria Tomestones. Having only a 20% proc rate for Repertoire feels real bad, and I don't think it goes up to 40% until we get Bite Mastery at level 64. Having our Job barely function during level synced content just isn't fun.

Agree with this, except for the first one. If BV were to get buffed, I would rather it just have a numerically bigger effect. If it affected self, it would have the same problem as RDM's Embolden. Embolden's best use, when taking the party into account, is not necessarily the same timing as its best _selfish_ use. So we have a situation where greedy or inexperienced Red Mages do what's best for themselves and end up hurting the team. Same problem would happen to BRD, which would want BV to line up with RS/Barrage windows, but 3:00 is right as a RS window is ending.

[Xieldras]

I already added my suggestion to another thread lost in the 2nd or 3rd page but I'll put it back here for good measure (and since this is a better suited thread for it).

I would like to see Foe's Requiem make a return but have it merged with the Soul Gauge. Allow me to explain.

Once the Soul Gauge is fully charged, you have the option to either use it for Apex (damage-dealing) or start a Foes countdown (debuff that ticks down kind of similar to how it did back when it used up MP). While I know Foes would always be preferred over Apex (considering that it's underwhelming according to many), boss fights could lead to some decisions. Do you have enough time to get the most out of Foes before the invulnerability or do you hit Apex to get a chance to fill back the SG? This could also play well into the balance of Bard's identity as both DPS and support.

A few things I would add to balance it out a bit more:

1. Foe can only be activated once Soul Gauge hits 100.
2. Unlike old Foes, once activated it keeps going until Soul Gauge hits zero.
3. You cannot gain Soul Gauge during the countdown.
4. Cooldown on the skill (I don't exactly know how fast the Gauge replenishes so it should be in function of that).

This is not something that can be achieved within a few patches.

Having a raid buff tied to an RNG gauge is interesting, albeit possibly just annoying. Apex would need to change though, realistically; all in all this just sounds like a really roundabout form of just doing Foe w/ charges (or BV w/charges).

Would prefer to stick to things that are more practical for a thread like this.

Yeah, my suggestion is more in the vein of: "idea for the next expansion". It can also just become too much if you have to check 2 gauges (Pitch and SG having different audio cues would help immensely).

Bard's gameplay in general is tied to procs and RNG, but I can understand it being annoying if it doesn't feel fair. I don't think it's too unnecessarily complicated either since it's mostly just: charge SG -> Cast Foe -> SG gauge lowers to 0 -> Foe effect end. It's just a different way of getting the same result than with charges and I think variety is something the game needs.
Also, what do you mean with practical suggestions?

Still believe the Soul Gauge is where there's the most potential for our next skills.

[Cetonis]

Having a raid buff tied to an RNG gauge is interesting, albeit possibly just annoying. Apex would need to change though, realistically; all in all this just sounds like a really roundabout form of just doing Foe w/ charges (or BV w/charges).

Would prefer to stick to things that are more practical for a thread like this. Following up on the low level QoL, Straight Shot really ought to be more than +20p over Heavy. Make it 220p at least, it's probably making newbie Archers scratch their heads a bit.

[HyoMinPark]

After finally getting BRD to 80 and taking it into content: yes, please, on the Apex Arrow sound change. The amount of times I have reacted as if it was a 3-stack Pitch Perfect already exceeds the number of fingers and toes I have...

Mostly agree with the rest of the suggestions in the OP as well. Why Bloodletter/Rain of Death didn't get charges is a bit beyond me. And I would like to see the return of Foe's in some shape or form. I'm just an average BRD and not a theorycrafter, so any suggestion on how to bring it back is not one I can provide. However, I've liked the ideas of making it a charge-based oGCD.

[Elsevier]

I agree with a lot of the changes brought up by OP as they don't fundamentally alter the job or it's identity but gives it more nuance and creativity.

The audio queue for Apex arrow being the same as Pitch Perfect is a nuisance and since Apex Arrow is fairly weak being a GCD skill that takes about a minute to charge up to 500 potency, a new cool sound effect when the gauge is full can be a way for the skill to feel more impactful because the audio queues feels impactful. It doesn't solve the problem of Apex Arrow being fairly week for a lvl80 skill but it does give it some feeling of "oomph" behind it.

The entire HW Bard quest line revolved around discovering and learning Foe Requiem and now it's out of the game, it invalidates that story saga and feels a bit silly. Currently Bards have no use for MP so a re-introduction of Foe Requiem (albeit in a different form probably) would be a great way to spice up Bard gameplay and utilize another resource that we currently don't use. I think Foe Requiem is also a skill that require knowledge to know when best used and I think that introduces a higher skill ceiling without forcing every player to utilize it perfectly.

Apex Arrow is in a weird spot. It has a lot of potential to be an interesting mechanic that Bard players emphasize and play around but currently it's just another "Wait until it's full and press a button". Since it's proc-based, it's hard to time this skill with certain add-phases or your damage buff window (Raging Strikes).

I think Bloodletter/Rain of Death getting Charges/Stacks would be a nice quality of life change especially during AOE scenario.

Great post! I think it's good to have these kinds of discussion about changes/tweaks to Bard without overhauling it's identity or it's core-gameplay.

[Cetonis]

The HW questline was about a different song that turned out to not be a usable song at all, but all the same the ARR quests and even the level 80 quest are all about the flavor of songs and inspiring the forces and all that. It's certainly a lore disconnect one way or the other.

What I like about Foe w/charges, or adding charges to BV, is that if you create decision making around that sort of buff - make it more than just press the thing every three minutes - then the player 'feels' more like it's an action that they are choosing to take, rather than some obvious whatever button. You could get really fancy going down this well (imagine if BV had three 60s charges, was 10% and could be stacked up, implying that you choose how fiercely to sing when) but for a patch fix just taking something as-is and modifying it in a theoretically small way is more reasonable to hope for.

Other than fiddling with BV / returning Foe and maaaybe just making Minne = Mantra (I kind of like it as a solo buff though tbh) I don't see any clear path to enhancing the flavor/lore aspects, but I also hope SE doesn't get so caught up in that that they become blind to the other matters.

There are a myriad of ways to clean up those Muse-related QoL issues for instance, and there's not really any reason why they shouldn't. The Apex sound might have technical hurdles, and you could imagine certain "feel" concerns about BL charges, though it does seem at one point they were in the plans. EA charges feel kind of free to me honestly, but are probably wishful thinking, can't just slap charges on everything. (a charge-heavy kit as a concept could be quite cool though)