Scholar Aetherflow Issues

[Hatstand]

It's technically DPS. Because of how you build up to misery each healing skill can be considered as a 225 potency dps skill. So if you're going to use and ogcd (bene, tetra, DB, assize) weaving it into an afflatus skill is a DPS gain over clipping your glare even if you just use it overhealing a random target.
If you're runing around and can't dps you can also just burn your lilie stacks and it's equivalent to having a 225pot instant dps skill so long as you use misery.

I realise this, and I do think that lilies as a whole are working better than aetherflow at the moment. Still, it feels bad to use an afflatus heal when there is literally no healing needed (though thankfully this hasn't happened often. Since far fewer of WHM's abilities use lilies, I feel much more comfortable just disposing of lilies more or less as they're generated.)

[Lagomorph]

Some really impact the gameplay and optimization though. Ruin II in it's current iteration is such a pain to use, it's just not fun. It pushed you into using ogcds in pairs or otherwise clipping your GCD. The later is obviously crazy clunky and doesn't feel right, because 1- clipping sucks, 2- muscle memory is a bitch when unlearning something. The former although it's an optimization opportunity, is just a pain to deal with in it's current iteration because you need to evaluate the true value of your second weave on the spot. Things like "well I can gain from placing SS over the tank anyways" is a falacious thought process because you're basically taking a dps loss for something that may not be necessary. Especially if you party with a WHM (which you most likely will) as they NEED to spend assize and afflatus skills on a regular basis.
It'll work just fine when we sit down and spreadsheet our CD use with our party but that's a lot of trouble for something that could be fixed with a potency tweak. Especially considering WHM afflatus skills work propperly for this purpose AND heal (healing aspect is normal since it's gated behind ressources, but just saying).

Not having a stack dump is a HUGE inconvenience. It completely removes the risk/reward aspect of the gameplay. Having one would make things more fun, allow for a bit more optimization, fix dissipation in a single target scenario, fix the weaving issues we have. Things like not having anything to weave which feels horrible, or helping make ruin II more relevant by giving you the option to stack dump into your single weaves to make ruin a dps gain and not a loss. etc..

I guess I'll just leave it at saying combat only aetherflow being reverted is a lot higher on my priority list of things that need fixing than it is yours, which is fine I think. I'm still optimistic about it being fixed. Having energy drain or some kind of similar dump back is my absolute top of my list though, I agree that deleting that skill is the #1 screw up with the current iteration of sch. On the topic of ruin 2 and weaving... one other thing that I miss a lot is the whole dynamic of weaving with miasma 2, because it rewarded you for managing mp and getting into melee range to use it, but that's gone too. As much as I want it back, I feel like the chances of us getting back something similar is extremely low. They could also do something like increasing the potency of an art of war hitting only one target to a potency that would make single weaving a gain over clipping. That would bring back a lot of fun in the class for me, but sadly I'm sure that'll never happen either. Either way in two weeks I'll see if I have to retire my sch and go whm main, as sad as that sounds. Also manual embrace/seraphic veil not being a thing anymore really sucks too.

[EaMett]

Yeah. I loved the melee healer identity that miasma II pushed us into. I also dearly regret it's departing and replacement with ruin II (halfheartedly executed too)

I've been keeping my expectations really low for 5.05. At this point I'm only expecting them to add a stack dump, and that's it. Maybe fix the pet skills getting chewed up but I won't hold my breath.

[Gemina]

I made my post before reading yours. What recast timer are we talking about here? Also lightspeed has it's own cd and 15 s uptime, different from having access to your kit whenever. One thing is certain, indom on AF without cooldowns definitely would not work. That's potentially 12 indoms every 3mn (6 in a row) in addition to fairy skills.... not gonna fly lol.

The recast timer I'm talking about currently does not exist. It would have to be implemented if AF skills had their CDs reduced. I never disclosed what it should be, only that all AF skills would share that timer. Lightspeed isn't any different from AF in the sense that they are both used for burst healing. The true difference is LS is on a 120s CD, but can have 20s shaved off it through Essential Dignity. They would balance out quite well if AF skill recast timers were reduced.

Let's go ahead and say that doing this would make SCH AF skills too OP. That's fine; so remove indom as an aetherflow skill if that is the case. The point remains the same that it is a flawed design to have skills utilize multiple resources, and also extremely annoying. It makes a job feel clunky.[/QUOTE]

[Ozaro]

Didn't get a chance to read the whole thread yet (I will get to it later today) so I apologise if this is a repeat comment, but I also sadly believe we won't get Energy drain back since it's been completly changed from what it used to do now, it's a skill used now to give smn its own AetherFlow. A possible rework could be we geta skill identical to original ED back but we can call it Osmosis. It's been used in previous ff titles for siphoning mp. Smn can keep it's new ED, but getting back the mechanics of old ED would help greatly. Also, I feel like not being able to use AF outside of combat sucks hard.

Also, also, as an aside, Im convinced now more than ever sch and smn will be fully divorced from each other, keeping smn as a job for the arcanist class, and having sch stand on its own next expac.

[ElroyDrundan]

I'm struggling with the must be in combat for to use AF etc.

I'm a new SCH, swapped from WHM last expansion, maybe folks have some tips for me.

I only really only struggle with one pull in current experts. It is the first pull of the dungeon and wall to wall ends up with 3 groups and a roamer. It is the one where you are running down ramps etc. I'm spacing on the name. It seems I can manage the pull if I do things without error, but it can be very dicey if others take damage, or the tank doesn't use cool downs properly.

I start with tank Adlo pre pull,
get in combat and AF,
run ahead of tank so I can shield again after the roamer is picked up, or after the 2nd group depending.
then once we are down at the bottom where the last group resides..
Sacred soil,
Excog,
Lustrate when needed, (at this point quite a ways from AF coming off cooldown) might cast adlo a few times to buy time.
At this point I sometimes will use the fairy tether or I will use whispering dawn & dissipate
if disipate now I've got 3 stacks so will keep on going (sometimes I find I have to start hard casting Adlo if I go through stacks quickly)
use up the new AF stacks, hopefully the fairy is about back and AF is off cooldown.
If I can make it through this period I'm good, if not it can get dicey...

Other than making that first pull tough, I find I'm having to micro manage AF stacks, is combat about to end, maybe burn stacks and recast before combat is over. I would really love something similar to energy drain, a little damage and MP back would be so handy. Also makes soloing a bit easier/faster.

[Nethereal]

We all know not having an aetherdump skill like energy drain is a problem. However, the glaring issue I see with aetherflow that I don't see many mention is the fact that three of its four skills are not only locked behind aetherflow, but also have their own cooldowns. I cannot stress enough how crazy it drives me when skills use multiple resources. DRK's old skill Dark Passenger was like this too having a long CD AND an extremely high MP cost.

I am ok with Indom, Excog, and Sacred Soil remaining aetherflow skills, but those CDs need to be drastically reduced; then just make all the skills share the recast timer. If we were to get ED back, it would make even more sense for them to set up aetherflow this way. I won't say the way it is set up now breaks SCH, but it's an annoyance I've had even before ShB and now that we also can't use it outside of combat, dealing with aetherflow is exactly that: Dealing with it.

You literally can't use math.

Indom without a cd and stacks would be broken. Just saying. Meta would be solo heal sch.



Not even remotely comparable. The healing component of afflatus skills is irrelevant to the gameplay. It's only bonus. If tomorrow you took away all the healing from the skills and removed rapture to only keep solace as an instant cast that does NOTHING (short of huilding the blood lily), it would still be a cornerstone of WHM gameplay and be used regularly. Afflatus skills are basically a Ruin II with healing attached. Actually, not only that but it's a better Ruin II since it can be used to single weave and has no mana cost.

Even if that weren't readily obvious. The fact that lilies allow for some form of dps and AF does not should've been a good clue that they aren't the same.

Except that's completely biased towards dps. You can't beat something without damage and you can't stay alive without healing. The healing from lilies is just as relevant as the damage from the blood lily after 3 uses, you just have an extreme bias towards dps on healers. You disregarding the fact you heal more (3) than you dps (1) with lilies doesn't change the fact just because your opinion is biased more towards dps. The majority of the mechanic is used for healing same as aetherflow. 75% healing 25% damage. In fact lilies and aetherflow share more in common than they don't. They share, healing, instacast, free resource. What they don't share, oGCD, aetherflow has no damage ouput. You could argue you get 3 aetherflow in 60 seconds compared to 2 lilies but not all resources are created equal and even then it just evens them out.

I'm struggling with the must be in combat for to use AF etc.

I'm a new SCH, swapped from WHM last expansion, maybe folks have some tips for me.

I only really only struggle with one pull in current experts. It is the first pull of the dungeon and wall to wall ends up with 3 groups and a roamer. It is the one where you are running down ramps etc. I'm spacing on the name. It seems I can manage the pull if I do things without error, but it can be very dicey if others take damage, or the tank doesn't use cool downs properly.

I start with tank Adlo pre pull,
get in combat and AF,
run ahead of tank so I can shield again after the roamer is picked up, or after the 2nd group depending.
then once we are down at the bottom where the last group resides..
Sacred soil,
Excog,
Lustrate when needed, (at this point quite a ways from AF coming off cooldown) might cast adlo a few times to buy time.
At this point I sometimes will use the fairy tether or I will use whispering dawn & dissipate
if disipate now I've got 3 stacks so will keep on going (sometimes I find I have to start hard casting Adlo if I go through stacks quickly)
use up the new AF stacks, hopefully the fairy is about back and AF is off cooldown.
If I can make it through this period I'm good, if not it can get dicey...

Other than making that first pull tough, I find I'm having to micro manage AF stacks, is combat about to end, maybe burn stacks and recast before combat is over. I would really love something similar to energy drain, a little damage and MP back would be so handy. Also makes soloing a bit easier/faster.

Do your job and heal. If your tank is having problems staying alive you heal. The only GCD heal you used in that entire scenario is pre-pull aldo and maybe 2-3 to "buy time", do you really not see the problem when your primary role is to keep your team alive?

Think of lucid as another defensive CD after popping all that stuff just use lucid and spam adlo til lucid wears off, weave as needed. Adlo is the new cure 2 for sch.

[ElroyDrundan]

Except that's completely biased towards dps. You can't beat something without damage and you can't stay alive without healing. The healing from lilies is just as relevant as the damage from the blood lily after 3 uses, you just have an extreme bias towards dps on healers. Except that's completely not true? You disregarding the fact you heal more (3) than you dps (1) with lilies doesn't change the fact just because your opinion is biased more towards dps. The majority of the mechanic is used for healing same as aetherflow. 75% healing 25% damage.


Do your job and heal. If your tank is having problems staying alive you heal. The only GCD heal you used in that entire scenario is pre-pull aldo and maybe 2-3 to "buy time", do you really not see the problem when your primary role is to keep your team alive?

Think of lucid as another defensive CD after popping all that stuff just use lucid and spam adlo til lucid wears off, weave as needed. Adlo is the new cure 2 for sch.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I was listing the cooldown skills I use to give you an idea of the flow. I'm constantly spamming adlo in between cooldowns but on that pull I reach a point where my cooldowns are gone and I'm slowly losing ground and can't keep the tank up. I'm not dpsing and I'm not standing there doing nothing. Also spaming adlo (which I"m doing, makes mana start to be an issue as well).

You seriously thought I was posting for tips, not actually casting our spam heal spell?...

[Nethereal]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I was listing the cooldown skills I use to give you an idea of the flow. I'm constantly spamming adlo in between cooldowns but on that pull I reach a point where my cooldowns are gone and I'm slowly losing ground and can't keep the tank up. I'm not dpsing and I'm not standing there doing nothing. Also spaming adlo (which I"m doing, makes mana start to be an issue as well).

You seriously thought I was posting for tips, not actually casting our spam heal spell?...

Yes I did. It's not your fault and you probably don't know this but everyone on this forum is more prioritized towards applying another DoT to another mob out of 4 to 6 or dpsing than keeping people alive. If it works for them it works for them but sometimes it doesn't work, I assumed you were one of those cases.

The way I go about healing tanks that are on the squishier side is the classic sacred soil, whispering dawn, heal if sacred isn't up yet or use excog, repeat. Use Illumination too before you use dissipation. If things are getting real dicey you can use a rec excog or adlo. If you're still having problems at this point you start spamming adlo and pop lucid(Honestly you could just spam adlo til you're 0 mana.)(Sacred soil should be back up.) and keep using aldo til either lucid drops off or aetherflow comes back up (Around this point whispering dawn will be back up.). Then you repeat til you're so desperate you need to use dissipation. At this point if the tank is about to die they either pulled to big for their ilevel, don't know how to use CDs or refuse to use their immunity and should go for smaller pulls.

A tank using an immunity is usually a welcome thing and if you time it right you shouldn't have a problem even with walking dead/holmgang. Walking dead can be intimidating if you don't know you only need to heal their full health, not heal them up to full.

Hope that clears things up.

[galbsadi]

I’m not a SCH main by any means, but I find it really annoying that I can’t Aetherflow out of combat anymore. Really interferes with trying to get an Excog on a tank pre-pull, which is what I usually did. Especially in dungeons just to give them cushion while they’re pulling/establishing hate. Now it’s like... I have to enter combat, Aetherflow if I don’t have the stacks, and then Excog. Which feels really awkward to do. But, again, I’m not a SCH main by any stretch. It’s the weakest of the three healers for me.

A stack dump would be nice. In low level content where I don’t have to heal, I’ve reached the point of dropping Soil randomly and using random Lustrates on an almost full HP tank and it just... feels really bad to do.

I am a SCH main, and I share most of these concerns.

However, while not a perfect solution, you can Recite-Excog pre-combat, so there's that.