SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[HWalsh]

I opted out of FFlogs.

My game performance is my business and mine alone. I opted out before doing a raid so nobody will ever know.

Do I use my cool downs? Yes.
Do I monitor when I have to pop something? Absolutely.
Am I perfect? Heck no. I'm still learning.

[ForteNightshade]

I opted out of FFlogs.

My game performance is my business and mine alone. I opted out before doing a raid so nobody will ever know.

Do I use my cool downs? Yes.
Do I monitor when I have to pop something? Absolutely.
Am I perfect? Heck no. I'm still learning.

If you were to join pugs at a EX or Savage level, how are they only your business when your performance directly impacts the content seven other people are engaged in with you? While you're absolutely welcome to hide your logs, I'm just curious why you seem almost offended by people seeing how well you do.

[Seraphor]

If you were to join pugs at a EX or Savage level, how are they only your business when your performance directly impacts the content seven other people are engaged in with you? While you're absolutely welcome to hide your logs, I'm just curious why you seem almost offended by people seeing how well you do.

I see it as unnecessary micromanagement, and a bit of a cop out.

I don't upload my fflogs, so I've no idea what mine look like, if anything. But I clear EX and Savage with my FC, with no use of fflogs or dps meters, and we do the content just fine.

Fflogs isn't an adequate measure of your ability, running the content is.
Run the content, and if a player isn't doing the mechanics or playing their job well, then you can ask them to leave. It takes 5 minutes to wipe to any fight, and only a few runs to know what the problem is.

[HyoMinPark]

I see it as unnecessary micromanagement, and a bit of a cop out.

I don't upload my fflogs, so I've no idea what mine look like, if anything. But I clear EX and Savage with my FC, with no use of fflogs or dps meters, and we do the content just fine.

Fflogs isn't an adequate measure of your ability, running the content is.
Run the content, and if a player isn't doing the mechanics or playing their job well, then you can ask them to leave. It takes 5 minutes to wipe to any fight, and only a few runs to know what the problem is.

Not necessarily. If you wipe to an Enrage multiple times, how are you supposed to figure out who the weakest link is without an external resource? How can you discern if one healer is slacking off in terms of healing or one DPS is pulling numbers from the previous expansion despite not dying? You can't. Clearing the content doesn't mean much when it's easy for 7 people to carry a person, and this goes for any content except Ultimate.

This isn't to say anything about jobs that are supposed to buff the highest DPS (AST, DNC). How do you know without one? You don't, really.

You may think FFlogs is okay, but it is info you're not meant to natively have. It corrupts the heart of the game. It goes against the intention of the design.

Well, in FFXIV, there are a lot of DPS checks. When so much centers around DPS checks, suddenly parsers do matter. When you have jobs that are supposed to buff the highest damage dealer (DNC, AST), they do matter.

Do you ever wonder why older games had relatively easier content? It wasn't due to devs not knowing how to ratchet things up, it was because the micromanaging wasn't possible by the player base. So they didn't have to tune them so high.

While I don't play anything outside of FFXIV, I've heard that FFXI used to have far more challenging content than anything FFXIV has ever brought to the table. Ultimate aside. Same for WoW, where they actually have in-game parsing add ons, if I'm not mistaken.

Parsers and such changed how the game was played and I, for one, liked how they were born. If we were meant to have parsed data, then the game would've been built with a parser. Period.

We do have the data though: it's in the combat log. A parser just condenses it for us. That said, Yoshida knows players use these tools. As long as they don't harass players with them or mention them in-game, nothing happens. He's watched world prog groups on Twitch with their parsers present.

If they're doing 0 DPS, 0 + 3% is still 0. It's their DPS, because the amount of DPS your buffs grant them depends on how much DPS they're already doing.

In terms of rDPS, it goes to whomever is giving the buff. So, AST cards go towards the AST's rDPS. Anyone who receives the buffs have it subtracted from their rDPS.

[Seraphor]

Not necessarily. If you wipe to an Enrage multiple times, how are you supposed to figure out who the weakest link is without an external resource? How can you discern if one healer is slacking off in terms of healing or one DPS is pulling numbers from the previous expansion despite not dying? You can't.

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

[Miracle_Diva]

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

There're mechanics that require pure dps, where you can't die without trying to, you have to kill things fast, or you wipe. Not enough dps - wipe, someone's not pulling their weight, means other people in your group have to do extra work in order to overcome the dps check. No one died, but wipe still happened due to someone's slacking.
I'm not talking about new players obviously, but we are at level 80 already, you have plenty of time to learn your job while you're getting there.
But we have people who just don't care, they pay their own sub and play how they want. That's their right. But please, stay away from other people then who want to clear content if you do not want to pull your weight and if you're one of them. By the time you hit 60, you are expected to know what you're doing on a class you chose to play. You are expected to know your skills and what they do. No one is asking anyone to play perfectly. Just pull your own weight and don't make others do the extra work because you were lazy.

[RoyalBeef]

Yeah, high DPS can compnsate low DPS players but only to a certain degree, there is a breaking point where it's still not enough, even without deaths. Personally I don't really care as long as we clear, I always bring my best game regardless of how others are doing. Or at least I try, ofc sometimes I derp a mechanic or just run off a platform bc my movement key gets stuck lol. I never feel like I have to do more bc someone else is slacking, bc I'm always operating at the maximum I can do anyway. Fun fact: In those cases where despite no deaths the party still hits enrage, more often than not it's an underperforming player that just ragequits or blames the party as a whole as being unfit to clear.

[Noitems]

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

I'd have to disagree. You can have a dps that stays alive thanks to doing mechanics and healers, but they can still not know optimization.

For example a SAM could stay alive the entire fight and know where to put aoes/move for markers, but also not understand a standard rotation and go freestyle.

Nothing feels worse then knowing that everyone in your party did everything correctly and everyone brought their A-game except one guy who believes using only double midares and no higanbana is the peak of dps.

Everyone else shouldn't have to make up for one person who doesn't know how to play their job to the most of it in high end content.

Edit: I want to state that people can have good intentions and not be aware of them when they head into these I get that and I've seen it doing Titania EX. However the moment you take your step out of normal trials/dungeons/alliance raids and start playing with EX/Savage there are expectations.

Back when Seiryu EX came out I tried learning it and while I didn't die as much as when I started I was still told my DPS low (ran as an RDM to add to that). Because I didn't have down a proper rotation at the time and just did what I thought worked. I took some time, figured out my rotation and before I knew it on my 10th run I was generally in the top 3 DPS between using low level pots and eating low level food, because I learned how to optimize.

It got to a point where I grinded it out 99 times for totems and I could actually tell based on music queues how behind we were since I did it so much. That's a trait built naturally overtime and it does help to find the faults in your party.

[Alucard135]

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

It's very clear from your statement that you haven't done savage. And upon checking, I was right.

[HyoMinPark]

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

That doesn’t necessarily determine the weakest link in a party. For example, I once joined a Tsukuyomi EX farm back when it was still fresh, and there were some...questionable DPS in there. Despite very few deaths, we still hit enrage the first time we pulled. Okay, so we try again. Maybe the deaths were too much (there weren’t a lot but still). I ended up dying to something, and I laid on the floor dead for a full 45+ seconds before the healer deigned to raise me. Meanwhile, the SAM and DRG in the party that had NOT died were doing LESS damage than me: the dead BRD on the ground for 45 seconds. For some reason, I don’t think my death would have been an issue with hitting enrage in that run (had it actually played out—it was a wipe again).

How would one discern that the SAM and the DRG were actually the problems here without a tool for it? It would be impossible.

Sometimes, it’s the people that aren’t dying that end up being the bigger problem.

And, as others have pointed out, you aren’t even considering rotational issues that may not be inherently obvious without a tool to see numbers. It’s not uncommon to run into players who don’t really know how to string together a basic rotation, much less an opener. Do you know why “Skip Soar or Disband” was such a meme in HW? Because all it took to push Zurvan to ~74% (the point where he would skip the first Soar) was for the party to just execute a decent opener. How many groups failed in that? More than people care to count.

“Don’t die” just doesn’t cover it.