Scholar Aetherflow Issues

[EaMett]

I’m not a SCH main by any means, but I find it really annoying that I can’t Aetherflow out of combat anymore. Really interferes with trying to get an Excog on a tank pre-pull, which is what I usually did. Especially in dungeons just to give them cushion while they’re pulling/establishing hate. Now it’s like... I have to enter combat, Aetherflow if I don’t have the stacks, and then Excog. Which feels really awkward to do. But, again, I’m not a SCH main by any stretch. It’s the weakest of the three healers for me.

A stack dump would be nice. In low level content where I don’t have to heal, I’ve reached the point of dropping Soil randomly and using random Lustrates on an almost full HP tank and it just... feels really bad to do.

Any reason why you think it's 100% certain they won't change it back? I've actually been pretty confident in the contrary, that they will change it back so you can use it out of combat. In the ex primals and the new normal mode raids, having it be combat only is fine, I guess. I'd rather it not be, but I can deal with it. In dungeons though, aetherflow being combat only is extremely annoying.

If you Look at the changes they made (short of DNC) they've been meaning to keep all ressources in combat. Several reasons for this but it's easier balance, avoids having to wait on people in between pulls etc.. It would be incredibly surprising if they went back over this for one class. The other reason is that it isn't a problem at all.

For dungeons you should be casting bio during the pull so you can generate your stacks and excog the tank while you run along (Tank should have a pre pull addlo). You can also recitation > excog out of combat fyi. Most dungeons are 2 pulls (wall to wall) then boss. At the end of the first pull you can just use dissipation for 3 stacks going forward. AF should be almost off cooldown so you effectively have 6 stacks going into your second pull. The fairy is generally back around the time the tank settles with all the mobs.

The only issue with AF out of combat is that we can no longer run alongside the tank out of combat for natural mana regen and the recent change to AoW kinda covers this. So all is good.

[HyoMinPark]

If you Look at the changes they made (short of DNC) they've been meaning to keep all ressources in combat. Several reasons for this but it's easier balance, avoids having to wait on people in between pulls etc.. It would be incredibly surprising if they went back over this for one class. The other reason is that it isn't a problem at all.

Well, the issue with locking SCH out of Aetherflow is that it locks it out of its major healing toolkit. The other healers aren’t locked this way: AST still has their healing tools (Earthly Star, Celestial Intersection, CU, COpp); they can still Draw cards (just not obtain seals—this, while annoying for openers, at least makes a little bit more sense: they don’t want us prepping buffs...you know, aside from DNC who can do that); WHM can still access Tetra, Bene, Divine Benison (they just can’t generate lilies, but the oGCDs should be their first line of defense in terms of healing anyways, then Solace/Rapture, then GCDs). The other two healers have access to their major healing cooldowns outside of combat, but SCH doesn’t. And while I’m not a SCH main, I still feel as if it’s a problem because it makes the job just feel clunky and not nearly as smooth as before. But this is my opinion.

For dungeons you should be casting bio during the pull so you can generate your stacks and excog the tank while you run along (Tank should have a pre pull addlo). Most dungeons are 2 pulls (wall to wall) then boss. At the end of the first pull you can just use dissipation for 3 stacks going forward. AF should be almost off cooldown so you effectively have 6 stacks going into your second pull. The fairy is generally back around the time the tank settles with all the mobs.

The only issue with AF out of combat is that we can no longer run alongside the tank out of combat for natural mana regen and the recent change to AoW kinda covers this. So all is good.

Yes, I do all that you list here. However, it’s still cumbersome to have to engage in combat, then Aetherflow, then Excog, then continue on my way while the tank gather stuff. Especially since none of the other healers have to do anything this convoluted: AST can pre-pull Celestial Intersection/Noct Aspected Benefic, WHM can pre-pull Divine Benison. They don’t have to be engaged in combat to use these skills in their toolkit. So, for me at least, it just doesn’t make sense why SCH is locked out of a lot of its healing toolkit while the other two are not.

I also want to voice how annoying it is to pop Aetherflow as the last mob in a trash pack is dying to have fresh stacks for the boss/next pull, but the game server ticks you and registers it too late—which doesn’t give you the stacks nor put it on CD. Had that happen several times to me tonight. Quite annoying...

[KilledByKangaroo]

I agree that it's annoying that we can't put excog on the tank pre-pull most of the time anymore. Even if the tank has pulled something the game still doesn't recognize that I'm "in combat" until I either heal the tank or hit an enemy so I have to do one of those things first for no other reason than to be able to use AF.

[Lagomorph]

If you Look at the changes they made (short of DNC) they've been meaning to keep all ressources in combat. Several reasons for this but it's easier balance, avoids having to wait on people in between pulls etc.. It would be incredibly surprising if they went back over this for one class. The other reason is that it isn't a problem at all.

For dungeons you should be casting bio during the pull so you can generate your stacks and excog the tank while you run along (Tank should have a pre pull addlo). Most dungeons are 2 pulls (wall to wall) then boss. At the end of the first pull you can just use dissipation for 3 stacks going forward. AF should be almost off cooldown so you effectively have 6 stacks going into your second pull. The fairy is generally back around the time the tank settles with all the mobs.

The only issue with AF out of combat is that we can no longer run alongside the tank out of combat for natural mana regen and the recent change to AoW kinda covers this. So all is good.

They could easily solve that problem by just making you spawn in with 3 aetherflow stacks. Or they could do what they did with ninja, and give us an out-of-combat only skill that refreshes aetherflow's cooldown. There are a lot of options they have, and making aetherflow combat only just seems like the worst out of all of the possible fixes they could choose. But anyways, the real reason why combat only aetherflow is so annoying is because many times I've actually wanted things to die a few seconds slower, just so I can put aetherflow on cd before the next pull. The way it works right now is such bad design. Having to use dissipation to replenish stacks when things die too quick does work, but using that skill as a band-aid to cover up SE's poorly designed aetherflow never feels good....

[EaMett]

Well, the issue with locking SCH out of Aetherflow is that it locks it out of its major healing toolkit. The other healers aren’t locked this way: AST still has their healing tools (Earthly Star, Celestial Intersection, CU, COpp); they can still Draw cards (just not obtain seals—this, while annoying for openers, at least makes a little bit more sense: they don’t want us prepping buffs...you know, aside from DNC who can do that); WHM can still access Tetra, Bene, Divine Benison (they just can’t generate lilies, but the oGCDs should be their first line of defense in terms of healing anyways, then Solace/Rapture, then GCDs). The other two healers have access to their major healing cooldowns outside of combat, but SCH doesn’t. And while I’m not a SCH main, I still feel as if it’s a problem because it makes the job just feel clunky and not nearly as smooth as before. But this is my opinion.



Yes, I do all that you list here. However, it’s still cumbersome to have to engage in combat, then Aetherflow, then Excog, then continue on my way while the tank gather stuff. Especially since none of the other healers have to do anything this convoluted: AST can pre-pull Celestial Intersection/Noct Aspected Benefic, WHM can pre-pull Divine Benison. They don’t have to be engaged in combat to use these skills in their toolkit. So, for me at least, it just doesn’t make sense why SCH is locked out of a lot of its healing toolkit while the other two are not.

I also want to voice how annoying it is to pop Aetherflow as the last mob in a trash pack is dying to have fresh stacks for the boss/next pull, but the game server ticks you and registers it too late—which doesn’t give you the stacks nor put it on CD. Had that happen several times to me tonight. Quite annoying...

Regardless of the healer you're playing you should be doting as many mobs as possible while running. So what if SCH has to weave a couple of skills in-between those Bios? You have an addlo + 50% of your tanks HP to place it, that's a lot of time. It's not a big deal, and definitely not what makes a class "clunky" to play.
Now, the fact we need to clip our GCD for single weaves, or that we don't have any stack dump to weave into our instant gcd casts (so we just wait on the gcd), now that's clunky design.

AF out of combat is a mild QoL at best and definitely not what sch needs the most right now.

And to answer your section on casting AF before the end of the fight. Like I said you don't, you use dissipation instead. Even if for whatever reason you have no stacks, you just bio all the mobs while you run and then you get it up. It's a non issue, there's hardly any gain from placing it before a pull anyways.

[EaMett]

They could easily solve that problem by just making you spawn in with 3 aetherflow stacks. Or they could do what they did with ninja, and give us an out-of-combat only skill that refreshes aetherflow's cooldown. There are a lot of options they have, and making aetherflow combat only just seems like the worst out of all of the possible fixes they could choose. But anyways, the real reason why combat only aetherflow is so annoying is because many times I've actually wanted things to die a few seconds slower, just so I can put aetherflow on cd before the next pull. The way it works right now is such bad design. Having to use dissipation to replenish stacks when things die too quick does work, but using that skill as a band-aid to cover up SE's poorly designed aetherflow never feels good....

Again, why do you need to wait? what good does having excog on your tank before the pull do? You have a lot of time to weave it into what is essentially 90% instant casts. Also, like I said in every post I made here. Use dissipation to prepare your stacks for the next pull, no need to slow down your pack dps. You'll have 3 stacks, your fairy will be back when it matters the most and you'll have AF off cooldown

Edit: Sorry clearly missed the second half there. My response to that is that dissipation isn't a patch up. The system doesn't need one because again you have plenty of time to get AF up while the tank pulls. And if we're talking excog, again you have a full galvanize and about 50k HP on your tank before it is even needed. Your skills are mostly Bio and AoW both of which allow for weaving so it's not a problem. Addlo > AF > Excog > Bio is barely different from doing Addlo > Bio > AF > Excog......
Dissipation is extra ressources for ogcd healing and in this case also solves the issue you currently seem to have with AF.

[Lagomorph]

Again, why do you need to wait? what good does having excog on your tank before the pull do? You have a lot of time to weave it into what is essentially 90% instant casts. Also, like I said in every post I made here. Use dissipation to prepare your stacks for the next pull, no need to slow down your pack dps. You'll have 3 stacks, your fairy will be back when it matters the most and you'll have AF off cooldown

Edit: Sorry clearly missed the second half there. My response to that is that dissipation isn't a patch up. The system doesn't need one because again you have plenty of time to get AF up while the tank pulls. And if we're talking excog, again you have a full galvanize and about 50k HP on your tank before it is even needed. Your skills are mostly Bio and AoW both of which allow for weaving so it's not a problem. Addlo > AF > Excog > Bio is barely different from doing Addlo > Bio > AF > Excog......
Dissipation is extra ressources for ogcd healing and in this case also solves the issue you currently seem to have with AF.

I'm not saying that it doesn't work, I'm just saying that it's annoying and that the old aetherflow system felt significantly better to use than this new one. Also if you're suggesting that the devs intended dissipation to be used in this way, then I strongly disagree with that. Overall sch does not struggle with dungeon healing at all, and as you say, weaving is a non-issue. It's just the feeling that I got punished (albiet not severely) for having things die slightly too fast that irks me about this system. Sure, I can dissipation, then eos is gone for 30s and now I don't have dissipation either. I'd much rather be using dissipation for something else as opposed to it just being an aetherflow refill. I'm still not convinced that using it in this way isn't just a patch up for a bad aetherflow. To me, sch right now is just a class that has a bunch of minor inconveniences that individually aren't that bad, but together they add up in a way that makes the class less than enjoyable to play. Combat aetherflow is definitely one of these inconveniences in my eyes. Most of these issues that I have are things that I would eventually get over if I played the class enough, but right now I don't even want to play scholar because white mage feels so much better in almost every way. And that makes me pretty sad since sch has been my favorite class for like 5 years.

[Silphax]

Agreed. This was never an issue before because we had the ability to use AF outside of combat. With it gone, having to use a 3m cooldown ability that is already clunky by design at the end of a mob pull to get the same functionality... well, that's just bad game design unfortunately. It's not at all a required thing, but this would solve one of my own personal gripes with SCH, outside of an even more simplified rotation and unused resources being spent on overhealing or wasted cooldowns.

[Random_Guy]

the more I think about this the more I actually start asking myself why they even put the restriction on aetherflow for being out of combat only.
from what I read it was to stop parties from waiting before a fight so scholar could get his AF going into it and perhaps more, if that's even the case why not leave it as it was and just add the effect of Dissipation as it is now?

Course i could be wrong so I'm gonna ask here, does anyone have the reason why they even added this limitation of AF to begin with? If i knew more about the reason i would probably be able to give a more detailed response to this situation. Sorry if its seems really off topic but it feels like this question probably belongs here rather than different discussions.

[Nethereal]

Well, the issue with locking SCH out of Aetherflow is that it locks it out of its major healing toolkit. The other healers aren’t locked this way: AST still has their healing tools (Earthly Star, Celestial Intersection, CU, COpp); they can still Draw cards (just not obtain seals—this, while annoying for openers, at least makes a little bit more sense: they don’t want us prepping buffs...you know, aside from DNC who can do that); WHM can still access Tetra, Bene, Divine Benison (they just can’t generate lilies, but the oGCDs should be their first line of defense in terms of healing anyways, then Solace/Rapture, then GCDs). The other two healers have access to their major healing cooldowns outside of combat, but SCH doesn’t. And while I’m not a SCH main, I still feel as if it’s a problem because it makes the job just feel clunky and not nearly as smooth as before. But this is my opinion.



Yes, I do all that you list here. However, it’s still cumbersome to have to engage in combat, then Aetherflow, then Excog, then continue on my way while the tank gather stuff. Especially since none of the other healers have to do anything this convoluted: AST can pre-pull Celestial Intersection/Noct Aspected Benefic, WHM can pre-pull Divine Benison. They don’t have to be engaged in combat to use these skills in their toolkit. So, for me at least, it just doesn’t make sense why SCH is locked out of a lot of its healing toolkit while the other two are not.

I also want to voice how annoying it is to pop Aetherflow as the last mob in a trash pack is dying to have fresh stacks for the boss/next pull, but the game server ticks you and registers it too late—which doesn’t give you the stacks nor put it on CD. Had that happen several times to me tonight. Quite annoying...

This honestly seems a little intellectually dishonest. I can say for a fact for me at least Sch does not feel as smooth as before mainly due to Fey Blessing but having to press 1 button while the tank pulls and then use Excog is honestly not that different. If you feel entering combat is tedious you probably don't have your keybinds set up conveniently.

And then talking about how the other healers can pre-pull shield, are you trolling right now? Sch has been the shield healer since release and it has never had an oGCD shield. Honestly it just feels like you're not respecting Sch's full kit. Even though the first pull is the most annoying Sch easily has the most oGCD's to use through a dungeon maybe even more than both healers have put together, is that fair to the other healers? If you really want a instant shield, use swiftcast.

Having said all this I want to remind you of something you clearly forgot existed. Recitation. You can use it outside combat despite it allowing you to use aetherflow abilities freely. You get where I'm going with this right? Considering you don't believe you should hold onto your oGCDs for emergencies I'm surprised you completely overlooked this.

As for the criticism of not having anything to dump your aetherflow into besides healing? Get with the program, that's how Whm lilies work too.