Scholar Aetherflow Issues

[EaMett]

I’m not a SCH main by any means, but I find it really annoying that I can’t Aetherflow out of combat anymore. Really interferes with trying to get an Excog on a tank pre-pull, which is what I usually did. Especially in dungeons just to give them cushion while they’re pulling/establishing hate. Now it’s like... I have to enter combat, Aetherflow if I don’t have the stacks, and then Excog. Which feels really awkward to do. But, again, I’m not a SCH main by any stretch. It’s the weakest of the three healers for me.

A stack dump would be nice. In low level content where I don’t have to heal, I’ve reached the point of dropping Soil randomly and using random Lustrates on an almost full HP tank and it just... feels really bad to do.

Any reason why you think it's 100% certain they won't change it back? I've actually been pretty confident in the contrary, that they will change it back so you can use it out of combat. In the ex primals and the new normal mode raids, having it be combat only is fine, I guess. I'd rather it not be, but I can deal with it. In dungeons though, aetherflow being combat only is extremely annoying.

If you Look at the changes they made (short of DNC) they've been meaning to keep all ressources in combat. Several reasons for this but it's easier balance, avoids having to wait on people in between pulls etc.. It would be incredibly surprising if they went back over this for one class. The other reason is that it isn't a problem at all.

For dungeons you should be casting bio during the pull so you can generate your stacks and excog the tank while you run along (Tank should have a pre pull addlo). You can also recitation > excog out of combat fyi. Most dungeons are 2 pulls (wall to wall) then boss. At the end of the first pull you can just use dissipation for 3 stacks going forward. AF should be almost off cooldown so you effectively have 6 stacks going into your second pull. The fairy is generally back around the time the tank settles with all the mobs.

The only issue with AF out of combat is that we can no longer run alongside the tank out of combat for natural mana regen and the recent change to AoW kinda covers this. So all is good.

[HyoMinPark]

If you Look at the changes they made (short of DNC) they've been meaning to keep all ressources in combat. Several reasons for this but it's easier balance, avoids having to wait on people in between pulls etc.. It would be incredibly surprising if they went back over this for one class. The other reason is that it isn't a problem at all.

Well, the issue with locking SCH out of Aetherflow is that it locks it out of its major healing toolkit. The other healers aren’t locked this way: AST still has their healing tools (Earthly Star, Celestial Intersection, CU, COpp); they can still Draw cards (just not obtain seals—this, while annoying for openers, at least makes a little bit more sense: they don’t want us prepping buffs...you know, aside from DNC who can do that); WHM can still access Tetra, Bene, Divine Benison (they just can’t generate lilies, but the oGCDs should be their first line of defense in terms of healing anyways, then Solace/Rapture, then GCDs). The other two healers have access to their major healing cooldowns outside of combat, but SCH doesn’t. And while I’m not a SCH main, I still feel as if it’s a problem because it makes the job just feel clunky and not nearly as smooth as before. But this is my opinion.

For dungeons you should be casting bio during the pull so you can generate your stacks and excog the tank while you run along (Tank should have a pre pull addlo). Most dungeons are 2 pulls (wall to wall) then boss. At the end of the first pull you can just use dissipation for 3 stacks going forward. AF should be almost off cooldown so you effectively have 6 stacks going into your second pull. The fairy is generally back around the time the tank settles with all the mobs.

The only issue with AF out of combat is that we can no longer run alongside the tank out of combat for natural mana regen and the recent change to AoW kinda covers this. So all is good.

Yes, I do all that you list here. However, it’s still cumbersome to have to engage in combat, then Aetherflow, then Excog, then continue on my way while the tank gather stuff. Especially since none of the other healers have to do anything this convoluted: AST can pre-pull Celestial Intersection/Noct Aspected Benefic, WHM can pre-pull Divine Benison. They don’t have to be engaged in combat to use these skills in their toolkit. So, for me at least, it just doesn’t make sense why SCH is locked out of a lot of its healing toolkit while the other two are not.

I also want to voice how annoying it is to pop Aetherflow as the last mob in a trash pack is dying to have fresh stacks for the boss/next pull, but the game server ticks you and registers it too late—which doesn’t give you the stacks nor put it on CD. Had that happen several times to me tonight. Quite annoying...

[EaMett]

Well, the issue with locking SCH out of Aetherflow is that it locks it out of its major healing toolkit. The other healers aren’t locked this way: AST still has their healing tools (Earthly Star, Celestial Intersection, CU, COpp); they can still Draw cards (just not obtain seals—this, while annoying for openers, at least makes a little bit more sense: they don’t want us prepping buffs...you know, aside from DNC who can do that); WHM can still access Tetra, Bene, Divine Benison (they just can’t generate lilies, but the oGCDs should be their first line of defense in terms of healing anyways, then Solace/Rapture, then GCDs). The other two healers have access to their major healing cooldowns outside of combat, but SCH doesn’t. And while I’m not a SCH main, I still feel as if it’s a problem because it makes the job just feel clunky and not nearly as smooth as before. But this is my opinion.



Yes, I do all that you list here. However, it’s still cumbersome to have to engage in combat, then Aetherflow, then Excog, then continue on my way while the tank gather stuff. Especially since none of the other healers have to do anything this convoluted: AST can pre-pull Celestial Intersection/Noct Aspected Benefic, WHM can pre-pull Divine Benison. They don’t have to be engaged in combat to use these skills in their toolkit. So, for me at least, it just doesn’t make sense why SCH is locked out of a lot of its healing toolkit while the other two are not.

I also want to voice how annoying it is to pop Aetherflow as the last mob in a trash pack is dying to have fresh stacks for the boss/next pull, but the game server ticks you and registers it too late—which doesn’t give you the stacks nor put it on CD. Had that happen several times to me tonight. Quite annoying...

Regardless of the healer you're playing you should be doting as many mobs as possible while running. So what if SCH has to weave a couple of skills in-between those Bios? You have an addlo + 50% of your tanks HP to place it, that's a lot of time. It's not a big deal, and definitely not what makes a class "clunky" to play.
Now, the fact we need to clip our GCD for single weaves, or that we don't have any stack dump to weave into our instant gcd casts (so we just wait on the gcd), now that's clunky design.

AF out of combat is a mild QoL at best and definitely not what sch needs the most right now.

And to answer your section on casting AF before the end of the fight. Like I said you don't, you use dissipation instead. Even if for whatever reason you have no stacks, you just bio all the mobs while you run and then you get it up. It's a non issue, there's hardly any gain from placing it before a pull anyways.

[Nethereal]

Well, the issue with locking SCH out of Aetherflow is that it locks it out of its major healing toolkit. The other healers aren’t locked this way: AST still has their healing tools (Earthly Star, Celestial Intersection, CU, COpp); they can still Draw cards (just not obtain seals—this, while annoying for openers, at least makes a little bit more sense: they don’t want us prepping buffs...you know, aside from DNC who can do that); WHM can still access Tetra, Bene, Divine Benison (they just can’t generate lilies, but the oGCDs should be their first line of defense in terms of healing anyways, then Solace/Rapture, then GCDs). The other two healers have access to their major healing cooldowns outside of combat, but SCH doesn’t. And while I’m not a SCH main, I still feel as if it’s a problem because it makes the job just feel clunky and not nearly as smooth as before. But this is my opinion.



Yes, I do all that you list here. However, it’s still cumbersome to have to engage in combat, then Aetherflow, then Excog, then continue on my way while the tank gather stuff. Especially since none of the other healers have to do anything this convoluted: AST can pre-pull Celestial Intersection/Noct Aspected Benefic, WHM can pre-pull Divine Benison. They don’t have to be engaged in combat to use these skills in their toolkit. So, for me at least, it just doesn’t make sense why SCH is locked out of a lot of its healing toolkit while the other two are not.

I also want to voice how annoying it is to pop Aetherflow as the last mob in a trash pack is dying to have fresh stacks for the boss/next pull, but the game server ticks you and registers it too late—which doesn’t give you the stacks nor put it on CD. Had that happen several times to me tonight. Quite annoying...

This honestly seems a little intellectually dishonest. I can say for a fact for me at least Sch does not feel as smooth as before mainly due to Fey Blessing but having to press 1 button while the tank pulls and then use Excog is honestly not that different. If you feel entering combat is tedious you probably don't have your keybinds set up conveniently.

And then talking about how the other healers can pre-pull shield, are you trolling right now? Sch has been the shield healer since release and it has never had an oGCD shield. Honestly it just feels like you're not respecting Sch's full kit. Even though the first pull is the most annoying Sch easily has the most oGCD's to use through a dungeon maybe even more than both healers have put together, is that fair to the other healers? If you really want a instant shield, use swiftcast.

Having said all this I want to remind you of something you clearly forgot existed. Recitation. You can use it outside combat despite it allowing you to use aetherflow abilities freely. You get where I'm going with this right? Considering you don't believe you should hold onto your oGCDs for emergencies I'm surprised you completely overlooked this.

As for the criticism of not having anything to dump your aetherflow into besides healing? Get with the program, that's how Whm lilies work too.

[Silphax]

This honestly seems a little intellectually dishonest. I can say for a fact for me at least Sch does not feel as smooth as before mainly due to Fey Blessing but having to press 1 button while the tank pulls and then use Excog is honestly not that different. If you feel entering combat is tedious you probably don't have your keybinds set up conveniently.

And then talking about how the other healers can pre-pull shield, are you trolling right now? Sch has been the shield healer since release and it has never had an oGCD shield. Honestly it just feels like you're not respecting Sch's full kit. Even though the first pull is the most annoying Sch easily has the most oGCD's to use through a dungeon maybe even more than both healers have put together, is that fair to the other healers? If you really want a instant shield, use swiftcast.

Having said all this I want to remind you of something you clearly forgot existed. Recitation. You can use it outside combat despite it allowing you to use aetherflow abilities freely. You get where I'm going with this right? Considering you don't believe you should hold onto your oGCDs for emergencies I'm surprised you completely overlooked this.

As for the criticism of not having anything to dump your aetherflow into besides healing? Get with the program, that's how Whm lilies work too.

That's the crux of it all though, really. Aetherflow easily gates half of your toolkit and limiting the amount of aetherflow you can get out in a dungeon makes the buttery smooth gameplay of SCH as before run into some odd hiccups in practice. As stated before, SCH functions with this restriction. It's only a matter of being able to function as smoothly as it had for six years without this unwarranted change. WHM has more immediate access to their oGCDs with the use of Tetra, Bene, Assize, and DB. You only have a mere three abilities locked behind lilies now, not a staggering half of your healing toolkit.

Recitation is great and nobody is contesting that, but it's a 90s CD. This makes for a great tool to use on Excog pre-pull, or on Indom for a chunky aoe heal but it doesn't replace the out of combat functionality that AF used to have.

[EaMett]

Indom without a cd and stacks would be broken. Just saying. Meta would be solo heal sch.

As for the criticism of not having anything to dump your aetherflow into besides healing? Get with the program, that's how Whm lilies work too.

Not even remotely comparable. The healing component of afflatus skills is irrelevant to the gameplay. It's only bonus. If tomorrow you took away all the healing from the skills and removed rapture to only keep solace as an instant cast that does NOTHING (short of huilding the blood lily), it would still be a cornerstone of WHM gameplay and be used regularly. Afflatus skills are basically a Ruin II with healing attached. Actually, not only that but it's a better Ruin II since it can be used to single weave and has no mana cost.

Even if that weren't readily obvious. The fact that lilies allow for some form of dps and AF does not should've been a good clue that they aren't the same.

[Gemina]

Indom without a cd and stacks would be broken. Just saying. Meta would be solo heal sch.

Nah. AST can already lightspeed+helios with nearly the same potency as Indom. I also said that the aetherflow skills would all share the recast timer, so you can't just mindlessly spam Indom. Aetherflow within itself already limits Indom usage, there really isn't a need for an excessive CD of 30-45 seconds when aetherflow itself is on a 60s CD, and can't be used outside of combat.

[EaMett]

Nah. AST can already lightspeed+helios with nearly the same potency as Indom. I also said that the aetherflow skills would all share the recast timer, so you can't just mindlessly spam Indom. Aetherflow within itself already limits Indom usage, there really isn't a need for an excessive CD of 30-45 seconds when aetherflow itself is on a 60s CD, and can't be used outside of combat.

I made my post before reading yours. What recast timer are we talking about here? Also lightspeed has it's own cd and 15 s uptime, different from having access to your kit whenever. One thing is certain, indom on AF without cooldowns definitely would not work. That's potentially 12 indoms every 3mn (6 in a row) in addition to fairy skills.... not gonna fly lol.