SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[HWalsh]

But it isn't "a cancer" to have someone pulling 7k in a fight they should be at 10k? I would also like to know what complex single target rotations you're referring to because out Ninja and maybe Machinist, most jobs are pretty basic. I mean, have you seen Dragoon or Samurai?

Who decided that you "should" be doing 10k? Did you kill it with 6k? If so, then it's fine. The time difference is what? Probably maybe 30 seconds? Who cares about 30 seconds?

[Enla]

Who decided that you "should" be doing 10k? Did you kill it with 6k? If so, then it's fine. The time difference is what? Probably maybe 30 seconds? Who cares about 30 seconds?

In an Extreme that amount is often the difference between a clear and a wipe. In a dungeon? Eh I couldn't care less, I expect those to be long, but there's no worse feeling than giving your all in an Extreme only to fall short because someone else (and usually several other people at that) has bad numbers.

[HWalsh]

In an Extreme that amount is often the difference between a clear and a wipe. In a dungeon? Eh I couldn't care less, I expect those to be long, but there's no worse feeling than giving your all in an Extreme only to fall short because someone else (and usually several other people at that) has bad numbers.

We're not talking about extremes though. We're talking about basic dungeons.

[Reimmi]

We're not talking about extremes though. We're talking about basic dungeons.

I dunno i've always felt that you should give your all in any content involving other players
being lazy just because the content is easy isn't an excuse, it wastes other peoples time
now if you're playing your best and you're still doing poorly, at least you're trying. that's good enough for me

[ForteNightshade]

Who decided that you "should" be doing 10k? Did you kill it with 6k? If so, then it's fine. The time difference is what? Probably maybe 30 seconds? Who cares about 30 seconds?

10k is slightly above average for most DPS currently whereas 6k borders on AFK status. If the boss died while you contributed only 6k DPS, that's because the other players carried you. Why should they have to pick up your slack when you shouldn't queue into content you aren't ready for? While I'm primarily referring to EX and Savage with my response, this logic also applies to dungeons. If I do a wall-to-wall pull and everyone, myself included, are aoeing the mobs down except one person. Why should they get a free pass? Once again, the stuff died because of everyone else putting in the work. If we all half-asked it too, stuff wouldn't die.

It isn't that time that matters but the consideration. You couldn't be bothered to learn your basic rotation but still want to reap the benefits of clearing content, albeit on the backs of other players.

I main BRD and I never cared about parsing because I felt like I was doing alright and I was clearing content, so what,right? Then I saw someone uploaded a few Titania Ex runs and I was barely pulling 8k DPS, being greyer than grey, which was a bummer, I didn't expect I was actually that bad and realized I was being carried most of the time, and people were just being polite to not ask me wtf I was doing (granted I've seen SAMs parsing below 7k so a 8k BRD still was a better deal to them lol.).
So I started to notice that dots falling of here and there, being out of range during certain mechanics etc added up way more DPS loss than I thought, and I started actively improving skill usage, movement, uptime. And what do you know, a week later I managed to pull of 10k DPS tops, now carrying parties myself and being complimented after the kills. Parsing had improved my experience in this game a lot because now I can tell when I'm doing alright and when I'm not, and for a DPS thats pretty much the only way to know (when tank or heal messes up it's way more obvious ^^). Just because there are a few bad apples who might use it to harrass people (which as I said never happened to me, and I never saw it happen in any PF party I've been in) is no need to ban the thing. Those people would harrass you anyway, if it wasn'tfor the parses they'd find something else.

And this is precisely why I dislike how terrified the devs are of parsers. I've come across plenty of people in similar situations—thinking they were contributing far more than they actually were. I even was one myself back when I started playing. If parsers were ever allowed more openly, I honestly think it would be a huge benefit to improving player skill. The bad apples would inevitably get themselves banned in short order while players genuinely wanting to improve could see what potential issues are and hopefully work on them.

[Unaki]

10k is slightly above average for most DPS currently whereas 6k borders on AFK status.

Unless you're DNC. Then you're about average at 7k.

[SturmChurro]

Unless you're DNC. Then you're about average at 7k.

The difference between me as a dancer, is I actually contribute to the party wide damage through buffs and utility, and especially contribute to my dance partners personal DPS substantially if they know how to utilize their skillset. A non-dancer dps doing below, very below, average does not contribute to the party like a dancer does. For that matter, if everyone is performing well, a dancer isn't needed at all.

[Shurrikhan]

For that matter, if everyone is performing well, a dancer isn't needed at all.

The value of a Dancer, as with any job with indirect contribution, improves with party performance.

And even then the indirect damage contribution does exactly no more or less, number per number, than direct contribution. If you do 7k yourself and only add a further 3k via the party, you're still doing no more than any 10k SAM or BLM.

The only real difference is that you can better be carried by your party the more you contribute indirectly.

[SturmChurro]

The value of a Dancer, as with any job with indirect contribution, improves with party performance.

And even then the indirect damage contribution does exactly no more or less, number per number, than direct contribution. If you do 7k yourself and only add a further 3k via the party, you're still doing no more than any 10k SAM or BLM.

The only real difference is that you can better be carried by your party the more you contribute indirectly.

Dancer is honestly kind of fluff. It makes other people feel better though. It depends on who your partner is, I've been partnered with people where I will still be doing more. A good dance partner can pull some serious dps. Generally though, yeah a team who knows how to use their skill set can better utilize dancer utility. It all evens out in the end, dancer or no dancer.

If you want to play physical ranged I'd probably just play a machinist honestly. Leveling mine up currently. Luckily I can wear my geared dancer stuff on it.

Thinking about it, I suppose you are right to an extent. I was more coming from the perspective that a good dancer isn't needed - if you are an above-average player. As a below-average player, you can at the very least passively contribute. An above average player is probably better off playing a regular class, and you might get a dancer to boost you! Rather I think we both meant the same thing, just worded it completely differently.