Need a Hall of Veteran for skip potion players.

[ForteNightshade]

skipping content is an advantage not matther how you look it. <--- classic hw stormblod is around 3 months of grind at 2-3 hours a day 5-6 days a week unless youhave way more free time on your hands
skipping class levels from 1 to 50-60-70- classic- heavensward- stormblood content to get directly into shadowbringer content is an advantage. <---- thats also another 2-3 months of grind too because msq and class you main go hand in hand.

I suppose the Road to 69 buff is Pay to Win then, yes? After all, this allows me to speed through the leveling process at an alarmingly quick pace. Likewise, since I'm skipping almost everything on that alt character. It qualifies as P2W in your eyes? What about old Alliance or 24 raids which aren't required to unlock? I'm technically "skipping" those too. Looks like more P2W!

Players are only "dead weight" if they so choose. A jump potion isn't inherently bad. Just as someone who leveled up "properly" isn't necessarily good. I have come across jump potion users who knew more mechanics than bloody mentors! And I've also had a SCH with every job at 70 do nothing but cast Physick on me in Holminster Switch and die constantly. What it boils down to is if someone wants to improve, they will actively seek out advice on their own. Those who couldn't be bothered... won't. You can put as many road blocks as you fancy in front of them. They just don't care.

[NessaWyvern]

So, I learned from the Novice Network today, that they actually have a boost to lvl 70 now on the mogstation (people were only referring to the lvl 50 one before in this thread, I was wondering why the playerbase seemed so much worse in dungeons, all of a sudden).
So, they should probably do some kind of "Hall of Veterans" to teach the new lvl 70s what a stack marker is, and what esuna is.
Especially since some ShB dungeon bosses are pretty mechanic heavy. It was fine when I was playing heals, but now that I am leveing my RDM, I am noticing a lot more healers and tanks dying, which makes the runs a lot longer.

Plus if people keep dying without realizing why they died, I bet it would turn a lot of people off the game.

[Hawklaser]

Bad players have always existed—jump potions did not cause this behavior. It was always there, and it will always be there—regardless of the existence or nonexistence of job skips. You can’t make people care to play “well”. Not even a Hall of the Veterans like what was suggested in this thread will make people sudden care to play “well” if they never cared beforehand.

There is so much truth to this. Even in the brutal environment of the early days FFXI, with its level down system and your heavy reliance on groups to do nearly anything which kinda meant you had to contribute to the parties, bad players still managed to make their way to the end game. Bad players are gluttons for punishment and surprisingly tenacious. They will find ways to get to the end even without jump potions. They will glom onto the fastest and easiest way to get xp that is possibe for them, be it a fate train, dungeon runs, PoD/HoH, or just plain old mob grinding.

If you think jump potions are the problem, you might want to look into the Dunning-Krueger effect. Might help ya get some insight into why they are not the problem.

On the if they are Pay to Win... they really are not. I would class them in the as a Pay to Accelerate. To me, Pay to Win items create an unfair competitive advantage, in FFXIV terms, that would gear above and beyond the current tomestones, an unreleased tier of materia, housing items with special buffs not obtainable in other ways. If it is obtainable in otherways, and not current endgame content, its not really pay to win unless it was exclusive time locked content, such as certain pre-ARR items for examples. I have played a couple games with a Pay to Win system, and there is always a very clear difference between those that are Paying to Win versus others. You can be the most skilled person in the game, but it is darn near impossible to prevent a P2W Whale from winning without paying a significant amount yourself, as there is no other way to offset the advantage some of the cash shop items give.

Levels to enjoy the current expansion with friends and when more players are playing? That is not going to give anyone any kind of in game advantage over anyone else that has been playing. Not allowing things like the level jumps only really leads to the games population declining sooner and quicker.

[Kaethra]

I said this in a similar thread:

Good players will tank well, even if they skip.
Good players will heal well, even if they skip.
Good players will damage well, even if they skip.

Bad tanks will get the group killed, even if they don't skip.
Bad healers will forget to heal, even if they don't skip.
Bad dps will just screw everything up, even if they don't skip.

It applies here. You can put in all the systems you want. It won't help.

Bad players are bad.
Good players are good.

Bad players will be bad no matter what you teach them.

Good players will be able to figure out how to be good no matter where or when they start.

[Bsrking5]

There are players who haven't skipped that still don't understand how a stack marker work. This was a thing long before jump potions were ever offered.

Ok, and where in my post did I say this was exclusive to jump potions? With the accelerated leveling progress sub 70 it's completely likely new players never get the chance beforehand, and this is only going to get worse with each level cap increase.

[Kaethra]

Ok, and where in my post did I say this was exclusive to jump potions? With the accelerated leveling progress sub 70 it's completely likely new players never get the chance beforehand, and this is only going to get worse with each level cap increase.

Nothing can be done to fix it.

As I said, bad players will always be bad players. Its not lack of experience, its not lack of knowledge, its simply because they are looking to put in the least effort. There's no for fix that.

And any sort of tutorial, or refresher, or whatever... good players simply don't need it. And those that need a placebo effect can simply queue for lower dungeons and work their way up if 'they' choose.

[Mirakumi]

Good Points all around. Just wish people were more mindful about learning their classes but it is what it is. I'll keep crossing my fingers and explaining and hoping for the best.

[Shurrikhan]

how about a chill pill, and let players learn een if they purchased their levels. se is smart they made lame players remain lame. now they have to learn the game ground up from sky high xD just laugh .

Sorry, but no. If they're going to buy an optional item to neglect the normal learning span, they can learn how to play by whatever other means they can before entering content that assumes the knowledge they've missed.

[Shurrikhan]

Nothing can be done to fix it.

As I said, bad players will always be bad players. Its not lack of experience, its not lack of knowledge, its simply because they are looking to put in the least effort. There's no for fix that.

And any sort of tutorial, or refresher, or whatever... good players simply don't need it. And those that need a placebo effect can simply queue for lower dungeons and work their way up if 'they' choose.

Except, plenty can be done.

Mechanical checks you can't simply flail through. Learning opportunities you can't be carried through instead. Essential toolkit components being added earlier in the game. Core mechanics appearing earlier in the game. A better difficulty curve that gives you something new to master in reasonable steps but actually requires something approaching mastery by the time you move on or add something more. Integrated 'soft' tutorials. Guildhests actually being worthwhile. Trusts and Squadron AI being smart enough a new player can actually learn from them. The list goes on.

[Hash_Browns]

Hey! I used HoH and PotD to learn my RDM, I even got to floor 100 of HoH 5 times on my RDM.
People can also level their classes by spamming fates and dungeons, and still not learn their class.

What actually decides whether or not you learn your class, is if you took time and effort to learn it. Tbh we should be probably be harsher on those who take no effort, and kick 'em, instead of carrying them though content.

While some people can learn classes by doing HoH or PotD, others always take the path of least resistance, even for their first time playing the game. That's the issue.

I was one of the people who did that, and I did it for tanking. I leveled PLD quickly in PotD as my first tank, and never got to learn tanking as a whole, when to use my cooldowns, managing enmity, etc. Of course, tanking is fine for me now, but at the time it completely ruined PLD for me when I had saw what I had done.

The problem comes from people who don't know what they are doing, but wanting to level up anyways - not people who have played the game with multiple classes looking to learn/level a new alt class. Odds are if you leveled up DRK, or WAR, and took PLD into PotD - you would still know what you were doing. That's 100% fine.

This game has a problem with being very newb friendly. People treat others who expect people to know the very basics like trash because that "elitist." The sad truth though is the game has so many ways to just shovel EXP to you that a jump potion, as much of a problem as it is, is actually just a drop in the bucket. My brother who plays this has just got to Susano, and already has 2 level 70 classes, and is currently working on a third. This isn't him going out of his way to level these classes either.

The game has a problem with throwing EXP at you, and not giving you the information you need. The info is there, if people look for it - but most aren't interested in looking, so they learn via trial by fire, and then people complain when they get matched with people who don't know what they are doing, and end up carrying them.

In my last leveling roulette, I met a level 54 PLD who was doing Dzemael Darkhold (Lvl 44 dungeon) for the first time. They had the "road to 70" buff, didn't know how to use cooldowns, and were using the level 50 job quest gear (iLvL 90) which was way overgeared for the dungeon. I would try to give them pointers, but they looked like they were having a hard time with everything in general. These are the kinds of players people hate meeting because it's a damn dice roll on how they take the advice, and if they even apply it. On top of that I'm here to play a game, not be SE's tutorials! The game should force tutorials on classes, teach cooldown usage, teach combos, teach multi-targeting, weaving ogcds, etc. That's what the job quests up to 50 should have been mixed in with story elements.