As a player who's never been reported, why aren't behavior penalties ever forgiven?

[KageTokage]

In hindsight, I feel really lucky that I didn't get any bad marks for messing with a DoL bot to see if I could break it somehow (Which among other things included trading with it when it tried to perform various actions and tagging mobs it was trying to farm), unknown to me that its owner was multi-boxing and monitoring it at the time and decided to report me instead of just asking me to stop or something simpler.

The GM basically just said "Don't do that anymore please" and left it at that. I did at least learn from the experience that the GMs are utterly useless at addressing cheaters and can only forward reports to the similarly unhelpful STF

[Doozer]

I love when people say they're paranoid about talking to anyone because they're afraid of getting banned. The only reason for that is if you regularly say punishable things. I've gotten snippy and have been involved in some pretty heated conversations in-game and have never been punished or banned in any way. Not because I was lucky or that the system is faulty, but because I know the lines you're not supposed to cross.

It's pretty easy to tell the difference between an argument and saying something offensive. If you're afraid you'll get banned for talking, it's probably because you don't know the difference. Or you're one of those people that think if someone gets hurt it's their fault and not the fault of the person that said the hurtful thing.

But honestly, the fact that I've never been disciplined means you have to say or do some pretty blatantly awful things, and to that I say: If you were reprimanded twice like 4 years ago and then got in trouble again today, that doesn't tell me they shouldn't consider your past offenses in your punishment; it tells me it's been 4 years and you haven't learned your lesson. And a single "oops" or misunderstanding doesn't get you perma-banned.

[SturmChurro]

Snip

You can probably get around a lot of those with specific wording. Unfortunately, they have pretty much written their ToS in a way that allows them to act on whatever they feel like.

I love when people say they're paranoid about talking to anyone because they're afraid of getting banned. The only reason for that is if you regularly say punishable things. I've gotten snippy and have been involved in some pretty heated conversations in-game and have never been punished or banned in any way. Not because I was lucky or that the system is faulty, but because I know the lines you're not supposed to cross.

I have never been banned, warned, or talked to by a GM either!

[Vivi_Bushido]

The only things I have ever seen action taken for against is sexual harassment, lewdity, and anything involving gil/RMT that's through the Party Find that isn't selling content. Such as wanting to exchange gil for a mog station fantasia.

[Vivi_Bushido]

I love when people say they're paranoid about talking to anyone because they're afraid of getting banned. The only reason for that is if you regularly say punishable things. I've gotten snippy and have been involved in some pretty heated conversations in-game and have never been punished or banned in any way. Not because I was lucky or that the system is faulty, but because I know the lines you're not supposed to cross.

It's pretty easy to tell the difference between an argument and saying something offensive. If you're afraid you'll get banned for talking, it's probably because you don't know the difference. Or you're one of those people that think if someone gets hurt it's their fault and not the fault of the person that said the hurtful thing.

But honestly, the fact that I've never been disciplined means you have to say or do some pretty blatantly awful things, and to that I say: If you were reprimanded twice like 4 years ago and then got in trouble again today, that doesn't tell me they shouldn't consider your past offenses in your punishment; it tells me it's been 4 years and you haven't learned your lesson. And a single "oops" or misunderstanding doesn't get you perma-banned.

Or it might just be that you were never reported by anyone? You're in the mercy of the other person's hands. You might believe you haven't said or done anything punishable, however it's entirely possible you have done something bannable and just have been talking to rather mature people up to this point who haven't felt it necessary to report.

[Shadha]

If you were reprimanded twice like 4 years ago and then got in trouble again today, that doesn't tell me they shouldn't consider your past offenses in your punishment; it tells me it's been 4 years and you haven't learned your lesson. And a single "oops" or misunderstanding doesn't get you perma-banned.

Humans are emotional creatures and everyone has bad days, and some people are more prone to report minor offenses than others. All it takes is the wrong combination of things to get a penalty. It doesn't mean someone hasn't changed in four years, it means they're imperfect and make mistakes just like everyone else, even if they're years apart. Just because you haven't been penalized doesn't mean your own behavior is unreportable, either. That's really the issue. Three misunderstandings over the lifespan of the game do, in fact, get you permabanned. It seems like you're being dismissive because it hasn't been a problem for you personally.

[Doozer]

Humans are emotional creatures and everyone has bad days, and some people are more prone to report minor offenses than others. All it takes is the wrong combination of things to get a penalty. It doesn't mean someone hasn't changed in four years, it means they're imperfect and make mistakes just like everyone else, even if they're years apart.

So you're actually implying being reprimanded at least twice is a common occurrence? I've never been banned in any online game in my life. Not for cheating, not for harassment, etc., and you're telling me that's the exception, not the rule? If people are so willy-nilly about breaking rules set by the people who make the game, then the punishment is probably warranted. You don't "oops" your way into a perma-ban. Three-strike rules are specifically for so you don't just get perma-banned from a mistake or a misunderstanding. It gives you time to maybe reconsider your behavior. I have serious doubts that someone who gets in trouble 3 times is completely innocent. And it's absolutely possible to never reach a point where a misunderstanding would be your third strike.

Or it might just be that you were never reported by anyone? You're in the mercy of the other person's hands. You might believe you haven't said or done anything punishable, however it's entirely possible you have done something bannable and just have been talking to rather mature people up to this point who haven't felt it necessary to report.

All you're telling me is that the whole "wah I'm gonna get banned because of a special snowflake :c" thing is a total farce. And that people don't go around reporting people who simply say "hello".

[Granyala]

And that people don't go around reporting people who simply say "hello".

Well maybe not like that, b/c I'm sure most feel that pestering a GM with obvious spam will have negative consequences to themselves.
But s/o could report you quite easily if you have a rather serious discussion about player performance. Esp when the feathers are ruffled, even normal, non evaluative language may be taken as offense. I've seen it happen merely from posting the mathematical fact of a log entry (w/o ANY comment from me, because it was self explanatory) in WoW. No GM was involved but I got asked to refrain from addressing these things publicly by the guilds management.

At that point: yeah, you are totally at the mercy of the GM.

Putting stuff like "unilateral dismissal of anothers opinion" as a bannable offense in your ToS gives them the theoretical room to ban you for virtually EVERY disagreement with another player, no matter the language involved.

Personally I've never been contacted by a GM due to misconduct in 12yrs of MMO play. I'm sure making Baguette jokes to french players would be bannable though, should I meet one w/o a sense of humor.

[Diggles]

So you're actually implying being reprimanded at least twice is a common occurrence? I've never been banned in any online game in my life. Not for cheating, not for harassment, etc., and you're telling me that's the exception, not the rule?

These are probably the same people who think that it’s normal for someone to have been arrested before. Just think about how many of those people there are, and it will explain everything.

[Shadha]

And it's absolutely possible to never reach a point where a misunderstanding would be your third strike.

But that's the issue, it's also possible to reach that point. That in and of itself is the problem. It puts too much control in the hands of the small minority that will report misunderstandings, or things that seem like misunderstandings to outside observers, as though they were grievous attacks. I mean, you're telling me that no one has ever successfully reported another player as an act of vengeance, with ill intent? Are you saying that it can't happen more that once? (Even considering the person who's been reported has already made enemies who would do such a thing?) Why do you think all reports should be permanent, forever, if the system can be abused at all?

Tell me what would be so bad about something like a rolling forgiveness period, to provide a buffer for longtime fans due to the flaws in the system.

These are probably the same people who think that it’s normal for someone to have been arrested before. Just think about how many of those people there are, and it will explain everything.

Kind reminder, I've never been penalized once. I just think people who have shouldn't forever be at risk of losing hundreds of dollars and hours and friends if they upset the wrong people.