Alot of hate on new job iterations o.O

[KingofDunkshire]

I just don't like the direction they are going, they basically dumbed the game down across the board and took away a lot of the uniqueness it had making it more boring and cookie cutter.

-Turned enmity into a toggle so tanks don't have to worry about it anymore, especially now that provoke has a taunt aspect to it and removed a lot of the Tank cooldowns
-Big steps towards making healers into healbots by removing tank and DPS cool downs, nerfing healer dps and increasing outgoing damage
-Nerfed Dps support to the ground and look to make us all Blackmages and Samurai's that only dps and nothing else.
-Made the jobs I have seen/played (haven't played them all) more simple and generic

If the Raids coming up are a massive step up in difficulty then ok I can see the need for the dumb down but if they are on the same level of the last tier it means they have removed another layer of difficulty to the game. I hope they don't continue down this path because I have seen what it has done to other MMO's, WoWs current state is one, this is not a time to turn toward being a WoW clone.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read in awhile

1. They do have to worry about threat/enmity between tanks (tank swapping), then you have adds to worry about if a WHM goes HAM on healing. Plus they had to remove the ramp up time to get enmity cause dps are doing insane dmg now, we're at a stage in FF14 ARR where most classes have a few 850-1,110 potency abilities in their tool kit. The difference between a BLM (top dmg) and a Tanks dmg is almost 4.5k dps, we're not even into the first actual raid yet.

2. Oh LORD healers having to heal...like cry me a river you have to do your class role

3. Nin has always been bottom of the dmg, now you have DNC being the bottom. That's what happens when you get amazing buffs, you don't get amazing buffs and amazing dmg. Then if you look at the top 5 dmg, Mach and DRG are in the top 5 in both fights, it's a damn good time to be ether of those jobs.

4. They had to remove abilities to add new ones or else we would have insane ability bloat. Hell Gunbreaker is a new job and it's already suffering from ability bloat. This isn't WoW where you can have classes with 14 or less abilities on their hotbars. Gunbreaker alone w/o using macros needs 29. Even my Ast needs 30, then you have DNC which needs about 26, DRK needs 28 and you can go on and on. When you almost need 3.5 hotbars for abilities...THAT'S NOT GUTTING JOBS, that's getting rid of bloating abilities.

The only job that can 100% say they got shafted is AST, they are over 500 hps behind WHM, which SCH is only 110 ish hps behind WHM in healing. DRK, WAR, PLD, BLM, WHM, SCH, MCH, DRG, SAM are all amazing at their roles. With RDM, SMN, NIN, DNC being in the middle while everyone else is meh. MNK while being in the top 3 dps, it's in this limbo of meh but good at dps.

[Xieldras]

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read in awhile

1. They do have to worry about threat/enmity between tanks (tank swapping), then you have adds to worry about if a WHM goes HAM on healing. Plus they had to remove the ramp up time to get enmity cause dps are doing insane dmg now, we're at a stage in FF14 ARR where most classes have a few 850-1,110 potency abilities in their tool kit. The difference between a BLM (top dmg) and a Tanks dmg is almost 4.5k dps, we're not even into the first actual raid yet.

2. Oh LORD healers having to heal...like cry me a river you have to do your class role

3. Nin has always been bottom of the dmg, now you have DNC being the bottom. That's what happens when you get amazing buffs, you don't get amazing buffs and amazing dmg. Then if you look at the top 5 dmg, Mach and DRG are in the top 5 in both fights, it's a damn good time to be ether of those jobs.

4. They had to remove abilities to add new ones or else we would have insane ability bloat. Hell Gunbreaker is a new job and it's already suffering from ability bloat. This isn't WoW where you can have classes with 14 or less abilities on their hotbars. Gunbreaker alone w/o using macros needs 29. Even my Ast needs 30, then you have DNC which needs about 26, DRK needs 28 and you can go on and on. When you almost need 3.5 hotbars for abilities...THAT'S NOT GUTTING JOBS, that's getting rid of bloating abilities.

The only job that can 100% say they got shafted is AST, they are over 500 hps behind WHM, which SCH is only 110 ish hps behind WHM in healing. DRK, WAR, PLD, BLM, WHM, SCH, MCH, DRG, SAM are all amazing at their roles. With RDM, SMN, NIN, DNC being in the middle while everyone else is meh. MNK while being in the top 3 dps, it's in this limbo of meh but good at dps.

This has got to be the most uninformed post I've read in a while.

1. Enmity is a toggle now since tanks can hold on to it much easier. Before you had to kinda work as a team to make sure no one ripped enmity from the tanks (Diversion, Lucid, Tact/Refresh, etc). Proper cooperation could make runs smooth or hell. Now it's very single-player focused and, since it's easy to hold on to, you simply throw your shield or Flash 'em to gain their attention where it was a tad more complex before.

2. Oh Lord! Healers having to only heal is...boring! Since healing skills are very potent, and the damage output (based on some players' calculations) is still the very same across the board, Healers are bored since they have nothing to do in between heals. GCD overall feels sluggish if there's no proper weaving. FF14's encounter designs do not support well those gameplay changes, especially older content. It's not fun.

3. Not talking about DPS and meta standings, but rather the fact that DPS support has been removed from jobs to make them more about...DPS (like 2 certain classes mentioned). Variety is the spice of life and MMOs are about people working together to clear content, not doing their own thing coincidentally with others to clear content. There's a difference here.

4. Number of skills =/= difficulty. We're not talking button bloat here, we're talking jobs gameplays being made simpler. You've read on the AST debacle yes? Many are lamenting the simplicity of new cards and that the old system had more complex thought put into it. Although not for all, a few other threads have popped up saying the same thing: some jobs have been made too simple and generic.

(A hint: next time make sure to actually read or understand the arguments presented before calling the post "dumb")

[KingofDunkshire]

Before you call someones post dumb and act like you actually know anything, you might want some reading comprehension before you talk at all mmkay.

1. Oh no they made tanking easier, what will we ever do. That's one of the most pointless arguments ever. Yea lets make the least played role in every MMORPG HARDER. Literally most tanks (as in the majority) now actually like the enmity change. Ironically the only people who hate the change are the same healing narcissists who cry about wanting to dps as healers.

2. Again cry me a river, if you think healing is boring, play something else. Your job as a healer is to heal, you think a tank wants to heal as well as tank?, you think a dps wants to tank as dpsing? no. You're only seeing narcissist healers crying on the matter and if you think healing is boring, luckily there's two other roles you can play as.

3. A lot of support dps abilities had to be removed cause only certain comps would work well together (like brd/drg), while having one of the duo could gimp your raid. Then you had Nin which was almost a must for 2 expansions cause of TA, spite it having really really bad personal dps. BRD has been getting shafted for years in terms of support abilities and it's nothing new, it's actually just showing SE doesn't know how to deal with BRDS. Also the "support" role is pretty much dead in MMORPGs cause it messes with the trinity system. Also this game is heavy on the meta play, do you know how bad it was to be a SAM in SB cause you only brought dps and no buffs/debuffs even though it was the 2nd best dps in the game.

4. Again read what I fraking posted, literally most classes (outside of AST, which I'll talk about in a sec) have insane ability bloat even after they removed skills so they had to tone them down. Only BRD and maybe 1 or 2 other jobs have been made "simpler" and MCH is one of them, which is something it drastically needed (and literally I've seen nothing but love for the new MCH) while the other one is WHM. When you have to use 25+ hot keys for a class.....that's not being in ANY shape or form being simplistic. In fact having too much stuff to do is actually making SMN and NIN more of a burden to play.

As for AST, having 3 cards do the same thing is a bit overkill and yes it made the card system not actually beneficial but that's not even close to being the main issues plaguing AST atm, you have a over 500 hps difference between WHM and AST, you have longer cds on AST compared to WHM and SCH cds, it's like why. Then you have the issue AST has to use it's gcds more than the other two healers on top of it's toolkit being not as good or even close to being good compared to SCH and WHM.

[Xieldras]

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Someone posted calmly about why they disliked some changes, you attacked their post insultingly (and to a certain degree the poster itself) and I replied with satire to your post while explaining my own stance on those points. Then you double down on the insults in this post and attack me as well while you're the one acting like you know more. That's pathetic.

Your post could be TL;DR as: "It's perfect, shut up, leave if you don't like it" and "your tears give me life". Also TIL I'm a narcissist DPS-only healer for disliking the enmity changes (my only healer is CNJ at lv23). People understand the changes, doesn't mean they have to agree with them. It's called disagreement.

(Sidenote: I didn't call your post dumb, you called the post of who you replied to dumb. I satirically called your post uninformed, which has a different meaning believe it or not).

[Hatstand]

2. Again cry me a river, if you think healing is boring, play something else. Your job as a healer is to heal, you think a tank wants to heal as well as tank?, you think a dps wants to tank as dpsing? no. You're only seeing narcissist healers crying on the matter and if you think healing is boring, luckily there's two other roles you can play as.

You think tanks want to dps as well as a dps? No! It's high time that SE addresses the flood of tanks begging for pure tanking and removes all but, say, 3-5 of each tank's dps moves. They should have emnity generating rotations and defensive cooldowns. After all, it's their job to hold emnity and manage their defence, not to deal damage!

Note sarcasm. I would never want this to happen to tanks any more than I wanted healers to be gutted.

It's not narcissism to want your job to be fun, or to want to be able to optimise. I freely admit I'm not the best healer, but I'd like room to improve, and right now I feel like I'm hitting my head on the drastically lowered skill ceiling. Tanks put crit and det materia in their gear over tenacity (I assume) because they've realised that if they're not dying more defence will not make them any better at their job. Doing more damage will. Healers have realised the same thing. Once people are not dying, the best thing we can do is deal damage, because any more healing would be ultimately without effect. This means that we currently practice healing with the goal of spending more time on a two button spam. Which is not fun. And then there's solo content, which currently consists of using four buttons (DoT, nuke, AoE, heal of choice).

Edit: To be clear, no healer I've talked to wants to have as much damage output as a dps. What we want is for whatever damage we do to not be delivered through a method that could be performed by a drinking bird