[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Lersayil]

It's also worth noting that for the 'godlike' status of Amarotians, their knowledge was not limitless. The irony that Emet Selch failed to realize is that these lesser incomplete existences of the source and it's subsequent reflections managed to discover not only physical dimensional travel, but also time Travel - something the Amarotians were not capable of. Emet Selch failed to grasp that these 'lesser' existences in their unique nature had surpassed the originals in some capacity.

Actually, this does beg the question: where were the Ascians during the many year long development of this superb technology? I doubt it could be kept a secret.

Also, while a nitpick, we dont really know if the Ironworks reverse engineered time and dimensional travel or just mashed together parts of Omega and Alexander into the Crystal Tower making it all work somehow. All three being technologies out of this world.

Which then reminds me that Alexander is a weird one. He's a primal, basically made with the same Creation magic Amarotians used. Did they just not imagine time travel back then? Not see it as useful?

[Melichoir]

Hydaelyn doesn't "create" life, though. She splits existing life into lesser, diminished copies.

I think Emet Selchs characterization of Hydaelin is probably biased and incorrect. He's right in the outcome, but not in the reasoning. It may be more apt to say Hydaelyn diversifies life by breaking it down into smaller fragments. Like I mentioned above, some Amarotonians felt there was value in incomplete or counterfiet creations, as it added to diversity. I think that philosophy helped shape Hydaelin and what she's setting out to do. Remember, hydaelyn isnt breaking down life into nothingness. She only went so far.

It's not even clear if the sundering was a desired outcome, or a side effect of destroying zodiark.

[Gwenorai]

I think Emet Selchs characterization of Hydaelin is probably biased and incorrect. He's right in the outcome, but not in the reasoning. It may be more apt to say Hydaelyn diversifies life by breaking it down into smaller fragments. Like I mentioned above, some Amarotonians felt there was value in incomplete or counterfiet creations, as it added to diversity. I think that philosophy helped shape Hydaelin and what she's setting out to do. Remember, hydaelyn isnt breaking down life into nothingness. She only went so far.

It's not even clear if the sundering was a desired outcome, or a side effect of destroying zodiark.

I think this is why she's called 'Mother Crystal' in a sense as well. She is a mother, she gives 'birth' to life. She considers all life to be her children and treats them as such. I think a lot of answers can be found in the song 'Answers' as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWdeMqELN-U

I close my eyes, tell us why must we suffer
Release your hands, for your will drags us under
My legs grow tired, tell us where must we wander
How can we carry on if redemption's beyond us?
To all of my children in whom Life flows abundant
To all of my children to whom Death hath passed his judgement
The soul yearns for honor, and the flesh the hereafter
Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after
Shining is the Land's light of justice
Ever flows the Land's well of purpose
Walk free, walk free, walk free, believe...
The Land is alive, so believe...
Suffer (Feel) Promise (Think) Witness (Teach) Reason
(Hear) Follow (Feel) Wander (Think) Stumble (Teach) Listen
(Speak) Honor (Speak) Value (Tell) Whisper (Tell) Mention
(Hope) Ponder (Hope) Warrant (Wish) Cherish (Wish) Welcome
(Roam) Witness (Roam) Listen (Roam) Suffer (Roam) Sanction
(Sleep) Weather (Sleep) Wander (Sleep) Answer Sleep on
Now open your eyes while our plight is repeated
Still deaf to our cries, lost in hope we lie defeated
Our souls have been torn, and our bodies forsaken
Bearing sins of the past, for our future is taken
War born of strife, these trials persuade us not
(Feel what? Learn what?)
Words without sound, these lies betray our thoughts
(See what? Hear what?)
Mired by a plague of doubt, the Land, she mourns
Judgement binds all we hold to a memory of scorn
Tell us why, given Life, we are meant to die, helpless in our cries?
Witness (Feel) Suffer (Think) Borrow (Teach) Reason
(Hear) Follow (Feel) Stumble (Think) Wander (Teach) Listen
(Blink) Whisper (Blink) Shoulder (Blink) Ponder (Blink) Weather
(Hear) Answer (Look) Answer (Think) Answer together
Thy Life is a riddle, to bear rapture and sorrow
To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow
In one fleeting moment, from the Land doth life flow
Yet in one fleeting moment, for anew it doth grow
In the same fleeting moment
Thou must live
Die
And know

[Lersayil]

See, this would have been fine if bloody Zodiark wasn't entwined with the star itself. No idea why they thought summoning a god and then having it so deeply entrenched within the very existence of the world was a good idea. It's like they just summoned a god-like figure then decided, well, it's a god, and gods create worlds - so for your service, we will now have you become part of the star - insert real-life jargon here about god and earth.

If Zodiark wasn't a part of the star then Hydaelyn's attack of 'sundering' wouldn't have resulted in this. So, all of the life that was on that star including all of the life that was being saved up for harvest was evenly split. This includes all of the life of the Ancients which - let's face it, was far too much.

Hydaelyn was supposed to give out life equally while Zodiark is the opposite. Billions for millions. Billions for thousands, etc. While with Hydaelyn it's all 'equal'.

All speculation but there could be logic to it: They surmised that their calamity was due to the law of magic and the world going out of wack. Seeing it as an issue with the planet, giving the planet a will of its own seems more logical than creating a separate entity, that would then affect the planet.

[Kallera]

See, this would have been fine if bloody Zodiark wasn't entwined with the star itself. No idea why they thought summoning a god and then having it so deeply entrenched within the very existence of the world was a good idea. It's like they just summoned a god-like figure then decided, well, it's a god, and gods create worlds - so for your service, we will now have you become part of the star - insert real-life jargon here about god and earth.

If Zodiark wasn't a part of the star then Hydaelyn's attack of 'sundering' wouldn't have resulted in this. So, all of the life that was on that star including all of the life that was being saved up for harvest was evenly split. This includes all of the life of the Ancients which - let's face it, was far too much.

Hydaelyn was supposed to give out life equally while Zodiark is the opposite. Billions for millions. Billions for thousands, etc. While with Hydaelyn it's all 'equal'.

Summoning "The Keeper of Precepts" as the will of the star was an idea because the Ancients were facing a star ending crisis. Inventors and Aetherologists aren't going to be terribly effective when the laws of physics and magic are falling apart.

In addition the acts requested of Zodiark were gargantuan. Rewriting the laws governing the star after they broke down in a cataclysmic mess, reseeding said star with life...And these beings are not the Q from Star Trek. It should be expected that such things do not come on the cheap. I don't think any such request of similar measure, save for stopping Zodiark, was made for Hydaelyn, it's probably likely she isn't capable of honoring such requests even if she heard it.

[Gwenorai]

Summoning "The Keeper of Precepts" as the will of the star was an idea because the Ancients were facing a star ending crisis.

In addition the acts requested of Zodiark were gargantuan. Rewriting the laws governing the star after they broke down in a cataclysmic mess, reseeding said star with life...And these beings are not the Q from Star Trek. It should be expected that such things do not come on the cheap. I don't think any such request of similar measure, save for stopping Zodiark, was made for Hydaelyn, it's probably likely she isn't capable of honoring such requests even if she heard it.

It's just maddening why they thought doing this in the first place was going to be a good idea. Such desperation they must have been in. I wonder if there's more to it. Who gave them the idea to do what they did? Bah, such speculation gets me excited for the rest of this expansion.

[Melichoir]

Actually, this does beg the question: where were the Ascians during the many year long development of this superb technology? I doubt it could be kept a secret.

Also, while a nitpick, we dont really know if the Ironworks reverse engineered time and dimensional travel or just mashed together parts of Omega and Alexander into the Crystal Tower making it all work somehow. All three being technologies out of this world.

Which then reminds me that Alexander is a weird one. He's a primal, basically made with the same Creation magic Amarotians used. Did they just not imagine time travel back then? Not see it as useful?

The Ascians were probably occupied with setting up the next rejoining OR they didnt seem to care thinking that these incomplete beings couldnt possibly come up with anything original. Might be a mix of both, considering Emet's demeanor.

It's also likely that Ironworks did reverse engineer Omega/Alexander/ and CT, as Ironworks was heavily involved in the study of these three. Even then, their creation wasnt perfect. It required someone bind with the CT, and the time jump was off. It's also a one way ticket by appearance, meaning the CT is stuck there now, and now possibly out of the time loop itself (as that future was averted to the best of our knowledge). Mind you, for dimensional and time travel to occur, they needed all three aspects - Wings of time (Alexander), Dimensional Creation (Omega), and a conduit (CT). Emet oversaw CT, but Alexander was a creation of reflections, and Omega is...??????. Im not sure where omega comes from. The story seemed to insinuate that Omega and Midgardsormir came from a completely different star (not a reflection or the source). Which if that is the case, that would make Omega tech hyper advanced, even by amarotonian standards.

They, btw, probably couldnt visualize Alexander because in many ways their thinking was hyper rigid. Considering the power and scope, they wouldve needed a lot of Amarotians to actually summon Alexander, and their way of thinking probably barred them from doing it effectively. Maybe they thought time travel impossible due to the paradox issue so they didnt attempt it. This is just another indirect example of the reflections surpassing the originals though.

It's just maddening why they thought doing this in the first place was going to be a good idea. Such desperation they must have been in. I wonder if there's more to it. Who gave them the idea to do what they did? Bah, such speculation gets me excited for the rest of this expansion.

It was desperation but also hubris. They felt if they could give the planet a will, that it would will itself into the proper state of things. It was a reflection of their thinking - that if they could control creation itself, they would create perfection. That obviously didnt work out, as it was their control of creation magic that probably ended up causing the crisis in the first place.

[Katie_Kitty]

They want to genocide entire planets. No they're not evil (neither good though) and yes they need to die.

Their plight is sympathetic, relatable, and absolutely opposite and unreconcilable with ours. Basically what makes a good villain.

There's nothing sympathetic about it. Their world ended thousands of years ago. Move the fuck on and stop trying to drag over a dozen worlds full of people into your pity party.

[Katie_Kitty]

While I dont agree with the "they should be winning" part, we... did kinda shonen pull this victory out of nowhere, didn't we? Emet was handing us our backside the whole time, WoL and Scions included. The Exarch pulling in the different WoLs was also really deus-ex-ey, given what we know about the difficulty and energy required for such a summoning. We even had a super-saiyan moment!

I don't think it's that shocking. Emet's victory was contingent on us failing to contain the light. When we merged Ardbert's soul into us, the WoL soul became more complete than the ascians had anticipated it to be, and that frankly changes everything. We contained the light and then used it to destroy his soul. Game over.

[Daralii]

It does bring up the question however on how if they were tempered; which they were. Then how did the '14th' leave to go start the great divide that caused the summoning of Mama Crystal? What did the missing '14th' - hinted to be us, do? Did we originally develop the echo in our 'Ancient' form, which stopped our tempering? It just seems so very confusing on how only one of the great Ancients in power managed to escape.


Also, how many Shards have they destroyed again? But by thinking on that, then by right the WoL with each joining/calamity the WoL/WoD on the source regained a part of their soul. So, we are near 'completion' we still have a few more fragments missing but we're close.

What is confusing, however, is how they thought this plan would work when one of the shards is completely messed up to the point even Emet is just 'well we made a mess out of that one.'

The 14th had left their post shortly before the moment Emet-Selch recreated, and a member of the Convocation leaving their post was apparently unprecedented.

On the subject of the WoL's completion and the destroyed shard, do keep in mind that not everyone from the 13th died or became a Voidsent. One, possessed of the Echo and seemingly destined to become a Warrior of Light, was born too late to fulfill his role. Despite that, Elidibus saved him.

I'm not saying that Unukalhai is a fragment that Elidibus was going to use to show the WoL the truth, but...