[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Lersayil]

Oh, please. That was after the fact we beat him and defied him. If you think he would've had a change of heart before being at death's door, you're sorely mistaken. And don't forget that, by Emet's own words, Zodiark is a primal and that every Ascian has been tempered by him. We were taught from the very beginning that primals require aether to sustain themselves, and if you think that Ascians and company are going to unsummon their God (which, I remind you, they have been tempered by) after the rejoining, you're also mistaken.

Zodiark exists to bend and change the laws of the universe, and they will continue this vicious cycle even after they bring back their people. And, even if they brought them back, they would likely be tempered by his will. No matter how you spin it, the end does not justify the mean. Ascians and company should make peace with their reality and realize their time has passed instead of holding onto an echo of a distant past.

Remember, he did not need to fight us. At all. He already won. Just leaving us there to die would be a victory for him. He fighting us man-to-man is already a sign of... ehr respect? At least he sees potential in us.

[DarkEiraStar]

I understood Emet Selch by the end, but I never agreed with him. Its impossible to go back. It would never be the same. We've seen what life brought back by a primal looks like with Lakshmi. It wasn't life at all. I imagine the fear for those that summoned Hydaelyn was that Zodiark would never be satisfied. We know that a primal must sustain themselves with Aether. Whether that aether comes from the land or from sacrifice. We know that souls are made up of aether. Do the souls of the people that are sacrificed go back to lifestream or are they gone forever?

[Gwenorai]

It does bring up the question however on how if they were tempered; which they were. Then how did the '14th' leave to go start the great divide that caused the summoning of Mama Crystal? What did the missing '14th' - hinted to be us, do? Did we originally develop the echo in our 'Ancient' form, which stopped our tempering? It just seems so very confusing on how only one of the great Ancients in power managed to escape.


Also, how many Shards have they destroyed again? But by thinking on that, then by right the WoL with each joining/calamity the WoL/WoD on the source regained a part of their soul. So, we are near 'completion' we still have a few more fragments missing but we're close.

What is confusing, however, is how they thought this plan would work when one of the shards is completely messed up to the point even Emet is just 'well we made a mess out of that one.'

[Melichoir]

Someone please help me understand why the bad guys are never allowed to win?

Something seemed awfully wrong about the way Emet-Selch was taken out. By all accounts, he should have won.

I mean, are Ascians even evil?

Its a clash of ideologies more or less. Emet's perspective is that since were nothing more than fragments or incomplete copies of their world, we're not living. We dont see it that way, and express as much. It was pretty much who wins is who is right. If our existence is to continue, it is necessary to defeat the ascians, even if theyre setting out to restore the world they hold dear. There is no middle ground at this point.

Mind you, The Ascian's point of view is inherently flawed. While its not 100% clear, there is this idea within Amarot that originality is key, but everything 'has to be approved' to their standards. The society snubs 'counterfeit', 'unoriginal', or 'incomplete, concepts or creations. There are some Amarotians who were arguing that there is value in flawed creations as those creations themselves are unique and different, and thus provide more diversity for their existence. Essentially this is an argument that the reflections have merit or worth before the sundering was a thing.

It's also worth noting that for the 'godlike' status of Amarotians, their knowledge was not limitless. The irony that Emet Selch failed to realize is that these lesser incomplete existences of the source and it's subsequent reflections managed to discover not only physical dimensional travel, but also time Travel - something the Amarotians were not capable of. Emet Selch failed to grasp that these 'lesser' existences in their unique nature had surpassed the originals in some capacity.

[Savagelf]

if Zodark came out death the Hydralian came for sacrifice to protect that life that Zodark wish to consume and she create life all out protect life it could be also possible that she create aether to create life. this what hydralian is the pole oppsite of Zodark Hydralian create life without realize it but protect that life she creates it a way protect the source and other shard for Zodark in her eye hydralian see action of Zodark as evil so the warrior of light service as Warrior of Darkness of first is necessary action by her design.

the ascains maybe slain but Zodark can find other tools to use he will problem remain the biggest threat the deaths of ascains won't change that for him

I kind wonder if they be able gain more warrior of lights on first with the view of those warrior of light seen in the worst lights.

maybe are ascain foe should lay low for couples expansion tried find recoup his loses

[Kallera]

if Zodark came out death the Hydralian came for sacrifice to protect that life that Zodark wish to consume and she create life all out protect life it could be also possible that she create aether to create life. this what hydralian is the pole oppsite of Zodark Hydralian create life without realize it but protect that life she creates it a way protect the source and other shard for Zodark in her eye hydralian see action of Zodark as evil so the warrior of light service as Warrior of Darkness of first is necessary action by her design.

Hydaelyn doesn't "create" life, though. She splits existing life into lesser copies containing the diminished aether of the original. While a representation of those that opposed the Ascian's first plans for Zodiark(From what I understand, Using a portion the new life to restore their people vs. Letting the new life flourish at the cost of their race) She is not a "Creator" and does not create aether with her abilities.

[Lunavi]

The "bad guys" have won at several occasions throughout this game's history though. At the end of 2.x and at the end of 3.x are huge examples of the bad guys doing nothing but winning, we also have the HUGE W for the Ascians at the end of 1.0. I feel like this game is extremely swingy, but I can understand that one section lost part of the feeling of there being stakes due to us "knowing" that it would end well because it couldn't end badly due to plot armor. But it is necessary plot armor as this IS an MMORPG with a story that shall continue, we can't have us dying, we can have massive consequences happening to us (which we have actually had at several occasions) but we can't be removed from the board so to speak, that is the narrative price we have to pay to have our avatar as the protagonist.

[Melichoir]

It does bring up the question however on how if they were tempered; which they were. Then how did the '14th' leave to go start the great divide that caused the summoning of Mama Crystal? What did the missing '14th' - hinted to be us, do? Did we originally develop the echo in our 'Ancient' form, which stopped our tempering? It just seems so very confusing on how only one of the great Ancients in power managed to escape.


Also, how many Shards have they destroyed again? But by thinking on that, then by right the WoL with each joining/calamity the WoL/WoD on the source regained a part of their soul. So, we are near 'completion' we still have a few more fragments missing but we're close.

What is confusing, however, is how they thought this plan would work when one of the shards is completely messed up to the point even Emet is just 'well we made a mess out of that one.'

The '14th' left before Zodiark was summoned, and their spot was filled.It's likely, btw, that whomever the 14th was, they were likely the person who set out to summon Hydaelin, as its reasonable to assume the 14th probably left because they felt the Zodiark plan was a terrible plan. I think it was expressed that it was extremely unusual for anyone to leave their position in the conclave (or whatever it was called). This is probably the case because its inferred we are a fragment of some particular Amarotian that Emet Selch knew. If were gonna go with story tropes, we're probably a fragment of the 14th member (which is why Hydaelin makes us her champion if we were the summoner of her.)

In any case, youre second point is about right. Theyve only destroyed 1 reflection (the 13th) and that was accidental. We are in theory becoming more powerful with each rejoining as we're coming closer to 'completion'. It's what probably makes it possible for us to be the WoL.

[DarkEiraStar]

It's been noted a few times that Hydaelyn powers are waning or that she is weak, yet has never once asked for a sacrifice of aether from any that have the echo or her blessing.

[Gwenorai]

Hydaelyn doesn't "create" life, though. She splits existing life into lesser, diminished copies.

See, this would have been fine if bloody Zodiark wasn't entwined with the star itself. No idea why they thought summoning a god and then having it so deeply entrenched within the very existence of the world was a good idea. It's like they just summoned a god-like figure then decided, well, it's a god, and gods create worlds - so for your service, we will now have you become part of the star - insert real-life jargon here about god and earth.

If Zodiark wasn't a part of the star then Hydaelyn's attack of 'sundering' wouldn't have resulted in this. So, all of the life that was on that star including all of the life that was being saved up for harvest was evenly split. This includes all of the life of the Ancients which - let's face it, was far too much.

Hydaelyn was supposed to give out life equally while Zodiark is the opposite. Billions for millions. Billions for thousands, etc. While with Hydaelyn it's all 'equal'.