[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Lersayil]

Considering how emotional he gets when you talk, it does seem like he's tried to accept these new people. He gets so very frustrated when he talks about the new life, how he's lived countless of lives being with 'mortals' and every single time it has brought him something to weep over. I think people seem to forget that it's okay to like an antagonist, a well-written antagonist is like gold. But it doesn't mean they should win. But back to him and his personality. Emet has suffered a lot; his people have perished, his loved ones his family. The sundering takes place, and of course, he sees a new life. He tries to fit in with this new life, he tests them, and he finds them wanting. But think about it... you've gone from losing nearly everything only to try to find some comfort in these new beings, and then well, it didn't work out well for him. He has most likely loved some mortals, he's had children with them, cared for them and each time they have perished and died and slipped through his fingers like sand.

Back in his time, people didn't die; he didn't lose anyone - he considered himself 'happy'. We know throughout the story how 'tired' he seems to be getting. He's carrying the souls of so many, their emotions, their sorrow and rage. He refuses to let them go because if he does, then their memory will perish and to him, that means they will cease to exist. It's why he seems to almost plead with the WoL/WoD to remember that they once lived. And yeah, he certainly tried to kill us. During the trial, it seems like he's about to give up and allow defeat, but the emotions and memories of everything he stands for. For his people gave him that second wind. When we win he seems almost calm about it, to finally meet his end. An end of all the pain for him. It does make me wonder what he meant when he said about 'remember that we once lived' - yes it could certainly mean their race - but was the 'we' regarding their kind or did it also include the WoL who is hinted to be one of them and close to completion.

Further still his name 'Hades' is pretty telling seeing as Hades had to shoulder the task of protecting/guarding the dead.

Again, he's a good character but his end goal is something that we the protag can't allow. It is still countless deaths to bring back those who have been dead for millennia, their time is over.

Thinking about it, its rather... nice? Optimistic? Of him, isn't it? Even after so many dissapointments in these new lesser mortals, he still tries and tests them of either being worthy of joining forces with them... or worthy enough to fight them head on, to fight for their worlds survival, to give them a chance.

Funny, given how the whole time he seemed pretty adamant about how much we were lacking compared to them.

[MOZZYSTAR]

I really liked Emet in this expansion (in SB his introduction was so eye-roll worthy), and I think his civilisation greatly reflects our own. Their city looks similar to ours. Their pursuit of knowledge and debate are similar to ours... And the way some - like Emet - can justify eradicating "lesser beings" for "ascian/mankind" is similar to our perspective (well, not everyone's perspective, but a large chunk). What I like about that is that a.) Ascians are not truly "black and white villains," they do have good intents and loyalty to their own. B.) It makes us think if WoD/L team are in the right or in the wrong and C.) may even make us question our values as human. Like, is it okay to completely wipe out a species (or a forest, and thus species) for the sake of mankind? There will always be an exinction cycle, but ever since humans became more advanced, the extinction cycle rates for other species have increased astronomically. I don't remember the statistics off the top of my head, but it was pretty shocking.



So, yeah, I really... really like how they portrayed Emet-Selch and his homeworld/way of life to us in this expansion. It was very meaninful and impactful. I dare say I hope to see Emet escape his imprisonment at some point, but that might be a little much as well. XD (I'll forever miss you, Emet. :c )

[Gwenorai]

I think we did the right thing, but only time will tell. Most of the calamities if not all were caused by them. The issues regarding the beastmen and the likes also caused by them. The petty squabbling will still exist but most of the hatred and horror has been caused by Ascians pulling their strings. From the beast tribes to every single primal - to the empire and finally the void. When you think about how much havoc they have caused for the mere desire to have everyone be slaughtered then it brings up this question. How is it any different from what Innocence is doing/desiring? It's just on a smaller scale. To kill so many, so they can be reborn as 'sin eaters' and live in supposed bliss. To be forcibly transcended.

The Ascians could have ushered the worlds into a golden age by looking over the 'splintered' worlds and the source. There was more than enough Ascians left to become guardians and stewards, ushering in prosperity and guidance. Instead, only one Ascian - that we know of right now - took the sacrifice to be splintered so they could go to each world and protect it. The WoL/WoD if the hint is correct.

They are to be pitied, for they are selfish in their ultimate goal. They threw away the mantle of protectors and guardians of the planet as soon as they decided to turn away from the task and usher in destruction.

[Lersayil]

We'll have to see. Emet did mention that even without Ascian intervention, the current races had their very fair share of horrible wars and atrocities.

Guess only time will tell how truthful he was with us. The way people came together in the First seems very optimistic, but that world was very much on the brink of destruction, and also had a very small number of people left.

[SerLuke]

And THEN they planned to sacrifice some of THAT life to bring back all of the people who sacrificed themselves. And some people didn't like that, which is why they summoned Hydaelyn. To stop that.
.

I think this is the sticking point, and really I don’t think the cycle of sacrifice would have ended there, with Zodiark there would have been more and more for whatever need comes about, Hydaelyn and those that summoned her knew this was the only way to break the cycle and protect future life.

I also think this is a big point of contrast between the two entities, Hydaelyn throughout the MSQ has been getting weaker and weaker and not once has she demanded sacrifice to power herself back up while Zodiark constantly demands sacrifice, massive ones at that.

[Derio]

Not really. He had selfish intentions. He wanted to cause a calamity to sacrifice enough souls to bring back his God. Then sacrifice the remaining souls in the world to bring back all of his brothers and sisters(Ancients) which in turn they would not learn from their mistakes and eventually cause another sundering.

His main arguments being that man will always have conflict. But Alphinaud's argument was Billions if not trillions of lives lost to restore thousands or a few million ancients was not a rightful cause for the rejoining.

Also OP you have to remember when we arrived at the First so many villains had already won.

[Astrus]

Good and Evil are as ever a matter of perspective.

Are the Ascians evil? Not per se.
Are their motivations relateable? Absolutely.
Are their methods wrong? From the viewpoint of one of the billions of souls on the chopping block they positively are.

Just as they're willing to sacrifice billions of, to them, malformed creations to rejoin the worlds only to then sacrifice all life on the rejoined world to restore their people we're perfectly willing to wipe out their (admittedly severely diminished) race to ensure our own survival. I can't really see either side as having the moral high ground here.

Are we evil for destroying the last remnants of a dying race, thwarting their plans to save their civilization? From the Ascians viewpoint I expect we might be.

From a gameplay standpoint there was no way the Ascians were going to win unless we were close to the end of development for the game as them winning means the end of our characters and the game world as we know it. Going forward I expect us overcoming the Ascians to not exactly be a good thing but inevitable. Depending on where they are going with the story it's not impossible that we will face off with both Zodiark and Hydaelyn either in an effort to create a balance between the two or to destroy both of them. While Hydaelyn seems beneficial she's a Primal and may just seem that way to us because we've been tempered by her.

We're going to keep "winning" or at least not outright losing in a permanent way up until the very end because that's what the story requires to continue.
In any case, I don't believe in happy ever afters. Just as the Ancients brought about their own destruction, man is perfectly capable of making their own lives miserable even without any outside influence.

[Lersayil]

I think this is the sticking point, and really I don’t think the cycle of sacrifice would have ended there, with Zodiark there would have been more and more for whatever need comes about, Hydaelyn and those that summoned her knew this was the only way to break the cycle and protect future life.

I also think this is a big point of contrast between the two entities, Hydaelyn throughout the MSQ has been getting weaker and weaker and not once has she demanded sacrifice to power herself back up while Zodiark constantly demands sacrifice, massive ones at that.

All speculation. Nowhere was it ever stated that Zodiark DEMANDED anything. For the very least the first two instances of sacrifices were noted to be done willingly. And it was said nowhere that it was asked by Zodiark. We know that creation magic requires a sacrifice of aether. If one persons aether is not sufficient, more can collaborate with others. If thats still not enough they can sacrifice their own life for a greater aether boost. That is still a limited amount, as we could see in the Akadaemia Anyder dungeons end, where a single life was enough to summon a questionably powerful primal-like being (Quezacotl).

Stopping a world end scenario, and restoring a whole planet required great sacrifices.

[Vanitas]

Pretty sure Zenos whipped our asses on multiple occasions so I wouldn't say N E V E R.

[SerLuke]

All speculation. Nowhere was it ever stated that Zodiark DEMANDED anything. For the very least the first two instances of sacrifices were noted to be done willingly. And it was said nowhere that it was asked by Zodiark. We know that creation magic requires a sacrifice of aether. If one persons aether is not sufficient, more can collaborate with others. If thats still not enough they can sacrifice their own life for a greater aether boost. That is still a limited amount, as we could see in the Akadaemia Anyder dungeons end, where a single life was enough to summon a questionably powerful primal-like being (Quezacotl).

Stopping a world end scenario, and restoring a whole planet required great sacrifices.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that, Emet made it quite clear he was tempered by Zodiark, so I would argue the continued cycle of sacrifices after his initial summoning were indeed the will of Zodiark.