Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Halivel]

Note, Matsuno himself didn't draw that. When Matsuno got asked about male Viera he created a Highlander in a moogle suit

He didn't create it tho? It was a retweet with comment "male Viera are here" as far as I remember. And it was, same as few others tweets of his, more fun tweet than serious tweet.

[Lauront]

I don’t care much about what actual rabbits are like. We’re not asking for rabbits to be added but a race SE has devised, selectively inspired by them. Thus I’m not really interested in them being shorter than the females just because of rabbit particularities that don’t necessarily have much to do with Viera at all.

As for the Viis, their appearance makes sense given the overall appearance of the races in Rak’Tika. I don’t hugely care for shoehorning particular looks in for ‘diversity’s’ sake and I hope SE continues to add things as they please and not on the basis of people who just want to agitate for some silly political agenda.

[zeylos]

I don’t care much about what actual rabbits are like. We’re not asking for rabbits to be added but a race SE has devised, selectively inspired by them. Thus I’m not really interested in them being shorter than the females just because of rabbit particularities that don’t necessarily have much to do with Viera at all.

As for the Viis, their appearance makes sense given the overall appearance of the races in Rak’Tika. I don’t hugely care for shoehorning particular looks in for ‘diversity’s’ sake and I hope SE continues to add things as they please and not on the basis of people who just want to agitate for some silly political agenda.

Yeah nah, if they didnt add things for diversitys sake we wouldnt have gotten any hrotgar at all. Male viera will look like male au ra/elezen with graceful animations, and thats nothing to do with some 'silly' political agenda (apparently, asking to be represented on a game is.... drum rollll... A political agenda!) but female hrotgar will, or at least should look fierce and beat-like and masculine, like the males, and thats nto for a 'political agenda' its because thats literally the whole point of that race

[zeylos]

And female Elezen used a modified Miqo'te base, and Miqo'te used a modified Hyur base. See where this is going? Of course humans would have similar human "base," the difference is that Urianger isn't your skinny and elegant Viera you were hoping for, he's the broader Elezen/Au ra which the concept art depicts.

IMO, Urianger could literally be a male viera model on the works lol. It fits the body type their meant to have perfectly imo

[zeylos]

I'm not interested in dimorphism for the sake of dimorphism. I'm even less interested in male viera being hijacked by those who want to take a stand against gender stereotypes. I'm generally not a fan of real world issues being projected onto the game in general, though - especially when it boasts players from all over the world and from many different cultures; some of which aren't all that invested in 'outrage culture' to begin with.

idk what u mean by hijacked, SE will do the race as they want. Real world issues shouldnt be projected into the game ofc, but real life ppl should be represented on the game, and the only type of culture that dosent get any representation is that 'outrage' culture u talk about, still, I do agree that I hate dysphormism for dysphormism, and I think that male viera, at least body type wise, should look rather masculine to go with their lore, just like how the female's are masculine in personality and looks

[Alleo]

I think you're misinterpreting my posts and statements to fit a particular narrative. It shouldn't bother you in the slightest that I referred to a piece of artwork as 'abhorrent'. It's a personal opinion. Quite a few posters have used similar terms to refer to images posted of muscular, masculine men throughout the thread.

I'd kindly request that you cease the attempts at tone and opinion policing, regardless.

Stating distaste for a particular aesthetic is hardly a personal attack no matter how much some may desire to twist it into being such.

Either way, since you're so keen to single out my posts in particular I invite you to message me in-game sometime to iron out any potential misunderstandings and prevent future issues!

Yet when someone here posted their fanart people who said that this might be done in joke because of the look of it, quite some people got defensive about this. When Senn posted his version of the Viera these very same people that got defensive were suddenly alright with talking negative about his..I also dont remember a single person calling the muscular pictures that word that you used. Also seeing what that word means I honestly find it really bad to use it while discussing someones fanart of it..I mean I doubt that you would remain happy if you posted your fanart and someone called it disgusting/despicable/hatefu (some of the examples what the word you used could mean).

No I wont stop my "attempts to tone police"...because these are nothing but wishes that people would stop attacking others and just discuss it in a nice way. I never said that you cant have a different view on stuff, but there is a line where it gets into too much attacks which helps no discussion at all. Also I quite clearly remember that you posted a small post too some pages ago where you said that people should stop discussing ERP or something similiar to that because that will only lead to arguments...wasnt that opinion policing too? But of course if others do it, its wrong. Its fine to tell others that they should step back because they use the female Vieras ingame to play males...its fine to tell others something they have created is abhorrent..but as soon as someone else tells people that they should try to be less aggressive in their posting its tone policing..

I dont single you out. Before you answered my post, I answered someone else, telling him why some would want that type. It was only when you then posted that boths sides are bad with that and that some might have an agenda for posting only for certain types that I even answered you and because I do remember quite a bit of people and their different views and reaction on this thread (from both sides btw) and especially will remember those that are posting a lot, I knew quite a bit about some posts..but no if someone else has posted it I would have reacted like that too. I normally dont care who is writing something because I look at the post first and the person second. But of course certain topics have certain posters and one might remember stuff they said. And if that is something that goes against their own words and actions then I will point that out. So no I see no reason to talk to you about this ingame, this is a discussion forum, if someone has something to say then say it there. (As long as its on topic)

If people want to play a short and slim male race, play a male miqo'te or a male midlander at max short with one of the younger looking faces. Boom.

And if people wanted to play muscular races that are huge then they can play Hrothgar, Roes, Au Ra. If someone wants to play tall and slightly less muscular then they can play Elezen. And if you want to play middle sized men with muscles you have Highlanders. Honestly you can use the argument for any of the races and for any wishes someone has.

[Awha]

How about variety because people want it? We already have multiple buff/ripped/elegant male body types.

If variety was a true concern for the community when it came to races then we should get another lala size race and forget Viera.

[Gwenorai]

I'm going to say this really regarding this whole feminity argument that keeps bouncing around. I can't imagine a male Viera with that particular lifestyle looking extraordinarily soft and fragile. Doesn't it seem a little odd to people? I guess this goes into the whole when does aesthetic trump lore. The lore doesn't paint them as soft looking. And if they do end up looking 'soft' and 'fragile' which are hallmarks of 'feminine' faces. Then doesn't that make the gender as a whole extremely sad when paired with the lore? Unlike au'ra, they don't have a counterpart subrace that has a softer lifestyle. They're not like Xaela and Raen, where the females of one subspecies fit the dainty, small profile. They're peaceful folk to a degree. Sadly they didn't want to make another model for the Xaela women.

Anyway, to the point. Viera do not have this issue. Males in both tribes are described as being ripped from their families at a young age and forced into a rigorous training that is near akin to indoctrination to serve the forest. Most of them die. They perish in the wood, through their training. And those who finish their training may die in the last test. Only then are they allowed to seek out solitude - a life to live alone. These men kill people in cold blood. It's in their lore - it's been repeated multiple times. If you set foot in their domain, they will kill you. It doesn't matter why you're in that woodland. If you do not have permission by the wood spirit they serve or protection of a female Viera, they will slaughter you. They do not ask questions, and when they do ask questions, they will kill you after. The males only communicate with females to breed, once every three years - and that's it.

Now, I know this has been said repeatedly to the point I'm smacking a dead Chocobo - but does this paint the image of a feminine male? A male with overly soft features? With the traits of femininity? Such as empathy? I can see it in some sense, but not the entire gender - not at all. I can see one face having this option but the rest to look like beautiful cold men who have gone through hell and back. To me having them looking soft and the likes makes me sad. Male Viera was already a sad tale. Having them look 'feminine' or the likes would actually only invoke a sense of pity from me. I can't rightfully describe why it just does. Just, the whole imagery of a soft looking male covered in grime and scars - living alone, forbidden to contact with his family and past friends. I want them to look colder, stronger - I want to see it reflect upon their faces and feel slightly better that they can handle this. These are lone striders where they have no say in how to live their lives. They become what they must, or die trying. Serve or die. There was never a third option available... hopefully this changes.

This is where ERP comes back into it for some folks. When folks desire for aesthetic overrides the lore of the males that have been put forward so they can ERP as what they desire. While square will accommodate for such a thing, they still have to at the very least show some respect and throwback to their lore and match it to their description and pray that they don't do them a disservice as they did with female Au'ra.

If I go back to my point regarding lore. A lot of woodland warrior type races in fantasy have never been portrayed as looking 'cute' or having overly feminine races. They have been beautiful and graceful men. LotR elves, for instance, are beautiful men - that focus on the beauty of the male to some extent. Not overly masculine, but you'd have noticed that the males have the high cheekbones, the sharp jawline etc. Women do not tend to have these, or they're now shown as much due to the fact in our biology where we look softer, we have more padding in the face. Male do not. So no, I don't support the whole 'this gender' should be completely soft in the face. When, in reality, most men do not - there are reasons why men do, this includes issues i'm not going to go into because someone will more than likely get offended.

The argument that feminine males are seen as 'children' is due to the whole biological standpoint that males of our race can look like females without issue and vice versa, but it's usually young boys who can be confused for young girls if the circumstances are right. This is also why we in the west cut young boys hair, while we grow it out in regards to female children and long hair has been associated with females and not males; it's an archaic view now. But I'm sure we've all heard/seen it where someone has gone 'cut that boys hair, he looks like a girl.' or the switch around where a girl with short hair has been called a boy.

Actual males who show physical female traits and not personality traits of femininity are very rare after puberty. One of these examples is a sex syndrome - but we're not going to go into that. Most who are close to female likeness do not look like this without the aid of aesthetics such as clothing, makeup and personality. That's the biological standpoint of it. When men go through puberty, they tend to look like men, not women. Again, I do not deny they exist, but they are in the minority. Of course, if someone argues that 'well I see them all around' then my argument is this - that's because you hang around in certain circles where these men are more akin to. And there's nothing wrong with that, but please do not state that it's widespread.

Either way, I don't care about them having one face that can be adapted to give a soft look instead of the sharp jawline/cheekbones. I also don't mind them being slightly smaller. But I would prefer that they weren't. I would also prefer that they had a full muscular scale.

Note; this isn't an attack on anyone - if you take it as one then honestly, thicker skin is needed. Facts about human biology are not offensive and I have written this with a neutral tone in mind.

[zeylos]

Snip

I agree that male viera should be masculine. My coments were in regards to specific posts

[SturmChurro]

idk what u mean by hijacked, SE will do the race as they want. Real world issues shouldnt be projected into the game ofc, but real life ppl should be represented on the game, and the only type of culture that dosent get any representation is that 'outrage' culture u talk about, still, I do agree that I hate dysphormism for dysphormism, and I think that male viera, at least body type wise, should look rather masculine to go with their lore, just like how the female's are masculine in personality and looks

Again, you have literally no idea what you are talking about when it comes to masculinity. Female viera don't have "masculine" emotes or a personality. I already quoted your post where you called them "masculine" before.

And if people wanted to play muscular races that are huge then they can play Hrothgar, Roes, Au Ra. If someone wants to play tall and slightly less muscular then they can play Elezen. And if you want to play middle sized men with muscles you have Highlanders. Honestly you can use the argument for any of the races and for any wishes someone has.

Male Au Ra are tall, not 'huge' in the sense you are trying to convey. I don't know exactly what the point you are trying to make is here.