Something about the new Ascian lore

[Alleo]

The thing that gets me is the Ascian image when the WoD/WoL combines with Ardbert. Maybe I'm alone in wondering about Hythlodaeus's involvement with this. He was the only being other than the Wod/WoL that could even see Ardbert. Not even Emet-Selch is ever implied to have noticed this. Now, granted, even he believes that he is a slip-up in Emet-Selch's recreation. When you fully recover from the light, Emet-Selch sees multiple people. He sees yourself, Ardbert, and another unnamed, robed figure. I can't help but wonder about the involvement of Hythlodaeus with the warrior of light.

I think that was just him seeing our old form. With Ardbert we gained another part of the original complete soul and maybe in that short time Emet was then able to see who we were once. (And its hinted that we were friends with him) He does not want to believe that thus he throws away the possibility that we are his old friend and fights us. But maybe after all was done he realized the truth thus why he says the words to us. I dont think that Hythlodaeus had anything to do with it. I just think that NPC was there to point out that we are a special soul, that Ardbert is part of our soul and that we might even be the 14th member.

[CaesarCV]

I think that was just him seeing our old form. With Ardbert we gained another part of the original complete soul and maybe in that short time Emet was then able to see who we were once. (And its hinted that we were friends with him) He does not want to believe that thus he throws away the possibility that we are his old friend and fights us. But maybe after all was done he realized the truth thus why he says the words to us. I dont think that Hythlodaeus had anything to do with it. I just think that NPC was there to point out that we are a special soul, that Ardbert is part of our soul and that we might even be the 14th member.

I agree with all of this! It might also be notable to point out that Emet-Selch doesn't consider sundered people to be human. So he feels absolutely no guilt in killing them. But if you were a real person, especially one that he was implied to know and be friends with, suddenly he's actually killing someone. It's implied he saw a shade of the original Amaroutine soul due to the soul combination, which horrified him. However, for a man hardened by so much hardship and loneliness, he was able to push down those feelings and keep fighting.

That being said, I think ti's probably fair to say our character is more of a reincarnation of some Amaroutine (presumably the 14th counsel member due to conservation of detail.) As far as we understand our characters still have their own will and personality.

[Alleo]

That being said, I think ti's probably fair to say our character is more of a reincarnation of some Amaroutine (presumably the 14th counsel member due to conservation of detail.) As far as we understand our characters still have their own will and personality.

Oh of course we still have our own will and personality. We are not truly the 14th member right now and maybe we wont ever be it. (Wrote it a bit bad there sry) But I do find it interesting that if we are the reincarnation of that person that we still hold fast to the same principles. Seemingly the 14th left because they did not agree with the plan, maybe just like us they might have even had one that did not need sacrifice. Maybe it would have united the people and give them hope thus stoping the creation of these monsters out of their fear. The 14th also might have had their hands in creating Hydaelyn but even if they did not, he/she might have been an inspiration for those that did.

But she is, splitting (more like destroying since they lose everything that made their existence like appearance, memories, etc) every life forms (except for 3) into 14 isn't doing good.
People are quick to tell that the Ascians are killing billions with each Rejoining, Hydaelyn was the very first to do it with the Shattering. (No the first and second sacrifices to Zodiark don't count as killing since the people gave their lives willingly)

But as the quests told us, she was summoned with that power. Why would people summon someone with that, if it was not intended to be that way? Maybe they knew that they cant defeat Zodiark like that thus let Hydealyn split him up. And maybe those ancients ones saw that they have created the worst of the calamity thanks to their use of creation magic, a magic that can take on another form just by being not 100% concentrated when doing it..And they knew that this might happen again and at the same time did not want future people to suffer for this. Thus they saw the decrease of the power as the only way to stop all of this. (And would have succeeded if three Ascians did not somehow escape all of that) We do not know if Hydaelyn shattering the world truly killed everyone. How would life even start again if that was the case?

[Tharne]

But as the quests told us, she was summoned with that power. Why would people summon someone with that, if it was not intended to be that way? Maybe they knew that they cant defeat Zodiark like that thus let Hydealyn split him up. And maybe those ancients ones saw that they have created the worst of the calamity thanks to their use of creation magic, a magic that can take on another form just by being not 100% concentrated when doing it..And they knew that this might happen again and at the same time did not want future people to suffer for this. Thus they saw the decrease of the power as the only way to stop all of this. (And would have succeeded if three Ascians did not somehow escape all of that) We do not know if Hydaelyn shattering the world truly killed everyone. How would life even start again if that was the case?

Zodiark being created with the power to create is somehow evil when he does the thing he's suppose to do BUT Hydaelyn being created with the power to fracture is somehow good when she does the thing she's suppose to do. Okay...
If I take you and fracture you into 14 with every one of those being only a fraction of the Original you, you're not you anymore hence you died.
You can't say that fracturing people into 14 isn't killing and then say that rejoining those people is. That's completely a double standard.

[Sakei]

I think that was just him seeing our old form. With Ardbert we gained another part of the original complete soul and maybe in that short time Emet was then able to see who we were once. (And its hinted that we were friends with him) He does not want to believe that thus he throws away the possibility that we are his old friend and fights us. But maybe after all was done he realized the truth thus why he says the words to us. I dont think that Hythlodaeus had anything to do with it. I just think that NPC was there to point out that we are a special soul, that Ardbert is part of our soul and that we might even be the 14th member.

I take the encounter to mean the opposite. Emet-Selch was friends with Hythlodaeus. He mentions this at the start of the conversation. I don't believe that Emet-Selch was friends with the WoL/WoD. I think he finally recognizes who we really are only after joining with Ardbert. I am thinking that the Hythlodaeus shade could recognize the warrior of light/Darkness even though it was only faintly because he was good friends with the WoL/WoD. He does say goodbye addressing you as his new, old friend. I think that Hythlodaeus was a mutual friend of Emet-Selch and the WoL/WoD. He had a stray thought in his creation magic remembering his old friend that had more of the real Hythlodaeus shine through than Emet-Selch ever intended.

[Zackneifein]

I take the encounter to mean the opposite. Emet-Selch was friends with Hythlodaeus. He mentions this at the start of the conversation. I don't believe that Emet-Selch was friends with the WoL/WoD. I think he finally recognizes who we really are only after joining with Ardbert. I am thinking that the Hythlodaeus shade could recognize the warrior of light/Darkness even though it was only faintly because he was good friends with the WoL/WoD. He does say goodbye addressing you as his new, old friend. I think that Hythlodaeus was a mutual friend of Emet-Selch and the WoL/WoD. He had a stray thought in his creation magic remembering his old friend that had more of the real Hythlodaeus shine through than Emet-Selch ever intended.

Well, i don't agree

I play in french, so it's not exactly the same as the english dialog, and it could be an error in traduction. But in french Hythlodaeus clearly say that Emet-Selch was fond the the original owner of our soul.

[Sakei]

Well, i don't agree

I play in french, so it's not exactly the same as the english dialog, and it could be an error in traduction. But in french Hythlodaeus clearly say that Emet-Selch was fond the the original owner of our soul.

Thank you for the input. That is a clear deviation from the English version. Some could see it, as you can read from the others as well, but it could only be implied in the English version. I love seeing these translation differences. Sometimes they can help you understand the intent better.

Hythlodaeus: A stray thought would have been enough, "Hythlodaeus will realize the truth," for example. We were... close friends once, you see...

This is the only mention of Friendship in English. As you can possibly see, the "we" is subjective. One could take it to mean the WoL, Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus, or just Hythlodaeus and Emet-Selch. For that matter, it could refer to Hythlodaeus and the WoL and not Emet-Selch.

[Alleo]

I take the encounter to mean the opposite. Emet-Selch was friends with Hythlodaeus. He mentions this at the start of the conversation. I don't believe that Emet-Selch was friends with the WoL/WoD. I think he finally recognizes who we really are only after joining with Ardbert. I am thinking that the Hythlodaeus shade could recognize the warrior of light/Darkness even though it was only faintly because he was good friends with the WoL/WoD. He does say goodbye addressing you as his new, old friend. I think that Hythlodaeus was a mutual friend of Emet-Selch and the WoL/WoD. He had a stray thought in his creation magic remembering his old friend that had more of the real Hythlodaeus shine through than Emet-Selch ever intended.

Well yes its kinda a bit open to interpretation but maybe all were friends? The shade to him and us and maybe Emet to us too. Otherwise his reaction at seeing the 14th at the rejoining with Ardbert would be a bit strange. If we are not his friends why would he be so shocked? If he did not like the 14th wouldnt he be more hateful instead of trying to tell himself that it cant be that way?

@Kallera: Yes she was summoned as a enemy against Zodiark but first we dont even know if we ever truly kill Zodiark (because that would mean that he broke free which means that at least one whole shard was again lost and a huge calamity has taken place on the source..and seemingly it takes quite some time to prepare both shard and source for this). Maybe this story will end with us just taking out Elidibus. Without him another ascian cant be raised into the position thus the threat should be over. But Zodiark is still kept sleeping, Hydaelyn will keep him in check and the spoken races will finally be able to really live their lifes without Ascians planning horrible stuff all the time.

[Kallera]

Well yes its kinda a bit open to interpretation but maybe all were friends? The shade to him and us and maybe Emet to us too. Otherwise his reaction at seeing the 14th at the rejoining with Ardbert would be a bit strange. If we are not his friends why would he be so shocked? If he did not like the 14th wouldnt he be more hateful instead of trying to tell himself that it cant be that way?

@Kallera: Yes she was summoned as a enemy against Zodiark but first we dont even know if we ever truly kill Zodiark (because that would mean that he broke free which means that at least one whole shard was again lost and a huge calamity has taken place on the source..and seemingly it takes quite some time to prepare both shard and source for this). Maybe this story will end with us just taking out Elidibus. Without him another ascian cant be raised into the position thus the threat should be over. But Zodiark is still kept sleeping, Hydaelyn will keep him in check and the spoken races will finally be able to really live their lifes without Ascians planning horrible stuff all the time.

Yeah, because that’s exactly what we did with the warring triad, right? Left them alone.... :3

You are still having a god manipulating the people of the world, complete with the compatriots being given ascian like power. I still think team neither is the way to go here if one were to truly put the reins of history out of the gods’ hands. This is probably the first time the in game characters had a moment to question Hydaelyn’s motives and the benefits of keeping her in power.

The way Elidibus was talking on the moon sounded like there was a threat to more than just the Ascians that Hydaelyn is keeping concealed. It is not like he’s not trying to convince anyone up there.

[Alleo]

Yeah, because that’s exactly what we did with the warring triad, right? Left them alone.... :3

You are still having a god manipulating the people of the world, complete with the compatriots being given ascian like power. I still think team neither is the way to go here if one were to truly put the reins of history out of the gods’ hands. This is probably the first time the in game characters had a moment to question Hydaelyn’s motives and the benefits of keeping her in power.

The way Elidibus was talking on the moon sounded like there was a threat to more than just the Ascians that Hydaelyn is keeping concealed. It is not like he’s not trying to convince anyone up there.

If we did not go to the warring triad and if people did not try to break their seals we would not have needed to kill them. (Heck we might not have even found out about their existence). Also these three are still primals summoned by split people. There could be a difference between those. She is also not really manipulating the world. People with the echo are also not forced to work for her. Helping people survive certain attacks or hopeing that some might fight against the Ascians who wants to kill us all is not manipulating or ruling our history. Most of the people dont even know she exits.

Of course Elidibus sees Hydealyn as a threat. He is tempered by Zodiark (and we dont have a confirmation that Hydealyn does that too) and lost another one of the complete Ascians.