If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[Poisonous]

As most don't know, DPS is expensive mana wise now and rezzes are 25% of your entire mana supply. There are times when all I can do is heal and then idle to recharge mana. I don't mind tossing out a few DPS spells or a dot but with the current healer setup, its near impossible to ABC. Healers don't have the bottomless well of mana they used to have.

As to the WHM DPS potency, yea they need a nerf, a big one too.

There shouldn't be this big of an issue with mana for white mages. What content are you running into this problem with?

Thin Air + Lucid Dreaming easily cover DPS and a few raises if used wisely. Rely on your oGCD heals first. The 71 dungeon can be rough if the tank is fully pulling (first pulls feel rougher on WHM due to how slow lillies appear).

What's concerning to me is you talk about not wanting to DPS at all but your biggest AoE damage at that level, Holy, is also a huge source of damage mitigation. If you're not using it, or DPSing at all, of course pulls will both take longer and be far more dangerous. Using your mana management tools in conjunction with it will get you through the bigger pools as long as the tank is doing their job too.

[jazo]

you all can debate what you feel a good healer is and what makes a job more fun/boring to play, but, about what are you EXPECTING other players to do in a party, the roles spells it for you

Healers : mantaining people alive as much as they can
Tanks: Keeping enemies from hitting other party members as much as they can
DPS: Hitting enemies as hard as they can

Doing this (and mechanics) can make people complete content, anything EXTRA from their role is nice to have and will make content easier/faster but you should not expect it to be the norm SPECIALLY on matched parties. If you want to have a party with people that do the extra to farm/clear faster, thats why party finder is maded for, make fixed parties with people that know/can/want/enjoy do the extra

[Crystal_Raven]

Let's be honest here: People usually just press "KICK" for almost everything.


In Leauge of Legends, it went as bad as that: The Tribunal, a pool where player reports would be funneld into, was once (past tense for a reason) ruled by players. RIOT figured out and openly admit that the majority would press "PUNISH" anyways no matter what the actual case is, and now it's back to automated.


When people see this window, they want to get rid of it as soon as possible and don't really care what actually happened, because when spoken up to, you are the next one to be kicked. And if it's the tank that started the poll, the majority will just cave in because searching for a tank replacement can be a PITA and to avoid that, they lick the tank's boots rather than standing up for the blamed one. That does not reflect you are right with your awful atittude, it just shows how cowardly and streamlined many people are.



Also, aren't you the one that proudly kicks everyone and everything when it does not go your way? This amount, especially with boasting, could be considered as "griefing" and you are basically admitting it openly - Who would want to play a game where the players openly state they kick for healers focussing on healing (because that is what is going on essentially)...



Another thing: I wonder who is upvoting you - because out of the anonymity, that'd be an interesting thing to look at.

You are incorrect.

I don't kick healers who focus on healing, after all, healing is the main priority. However, in most situations I can easily mitigate enough damage and in some dungeons that are mechanic heavy it's easy to avoid almost all damage to a point that the healer hardly needs to concern himself with me , and I do this because I can and if I can give the healer some downtime so he doesn't have to hit every button in panic to keep me alive, why shouldn't I do that?

However, in the time that I give the healer to forget about me, if I see him doing nothing at all and just idling, especially when he has Lucid up and he's high on MP, waiting for someone to take enough damage to warrant a heal, why would I not be against having that person in the group? I am essentially bringing my best to give those around me an easier time at doing their job and more breathing room, and instead of them doing the same and helping the group by doing their best, they choose to idle. They choose to sit and watch until someone takes damage to need healing instead of helping with damage in the downtime when healing clearly isn't necessary and the group is performing well enough that you as a healer can afford to be pretty laid back when it comes to healing, especially with bosses.

Also, you say that that part about the people caving because I'm a tank, here is something that I personally find amusing, I play DPS as well and I have initiated vote kicks against healers that were outright AFKing in combat and not doing anything other than toss out a heal every 10-15 seconds because the group was avoiding the majority of damage in boss fights, and to no surprise, the majority of those went through, meaning the rest of the party agreed with me in regards of kicking due to player being AFK, and I was a simple DPS, they have no reason to cave in considering it takes 0.5 seconds to find a new DPS player. Some disagreed and claimed like you and others, that this type of behaviour is OK and should be accepted, however, that's quite the minority.

People on this forum love to scream and shout that being idle in fights is acceptable, the reality is that you're just a very vocal minority. All you need to do is take one look at the posts and the likes that went throughout this entire thread and it's quite easy to see that the majority of people agree that you should not idle in combat regardless of your class and you should always assist in any way you can when possible.

[Adrestia]

I had a really good encounter with a struggling healer yesterday. I was on Paladin pulling wall to wall in the 71 dungeon, and he was really struggling to keep up with healing and certainly not doing any damage. Although bear in mind, neither I nor the DPS ever actually died.

He was struggling because he was spam casting physick with lustrate as a band-aid to catch up, but of course that has limited charges.

Why was the overall encounter good? Because when I politely pointed out that physick wasn’t doing a good job keeping up (as I said I didn’t die, but I had to use cooldowns I normally would’ve had for the next big pull, forcing me to instead make 2 small pulls), he responded that he was pretty new to healing and sorry for any trouble. I of course told him no problem and we talked about how these pulls are typically done: aim to frontload big heals and cooldowns along with enough damage to kill the pack before the tank and healer run out of cooldowns.

He made some adjustments and the clear speed improved dramatically, plus I was no longer teetering on the edge of death due to the inherent weakness of physick spam. After we talked he got a lot better at boss fights too, responding to the tank busters much faster.

I truly believe one of the great disservices SE did with ShB was telling people that healing is gonna be much harder and MP management will be a big deal. In truth, the healing burden didn’t change much at all, but the messaging has people worried about using efficient heals over powerful ones and thinking that it’s just normal now that you have to spam.

[CazzT]

Next time I go in a dungeon, I'll pull wall to walk and proceed to not deal any damage. My job is to tank after all isn't it? Not deal damage, that's not my job.

If something gets aggro on something else, I will take it back and proceed to sit there.

It's the DPS job to deal damage, not mine. I'm just here to make sure things are aggro on me.

See how ridiculous this sounds?

How are you going to keep threat if you're not hitting the mobs? The fact your threat is generated through damaging attacks means the damage is a byproduct. As a Tank, you're not there to DPS. It just so happens your primary function has a DPS byproduct.

[Noahlimits]

Healer dps is higher than ever, I'm not sure why people thought healers dpsing would change at all.

The main issue (at least for WHMs I see) is that they're trying to play the job like they used to play. You should never really be relying on cure, cure II, medica, medica II or cure III anymore. It should be all OGCDs (asylum, benison, tetra) and when you have to GCD heal, using your lilies. If a whm isn't using benediction on cooldown, they're doing it wrong. In dungeons, it shouldn't be an 'emergency button'. It's part of your toolkit you're essentially wasting for a situation that should never occur in a dungeon if you hold it.

[EpicOverlord85]

How are you going to keep threat if you're not hitting the mobs? The fact your threat is generated through damaging attacks means the damage is a byproduct. As a Tank, you're not there to DPS. It just so happens your primary function has a DPS byproduct.

As a tank I am there to generate threat and DPS. As a healer I am there to heal and DPS. As a DPS I am there to DPS and to make sure not to make the healers life any harder.

[Liam_Harper]

This blew up again.

I'm not seeing the issues. I'm sure there are a handful of cases, but overall I haven't seen any healers called out for dps so far. It varies, but generally most throw in some damage and do a reasonable job keeping the party alive. Expectations aren't too high in the standard PF for Normal content, as long as you're trying and doing something, mistakes or mediocre play are fine.

As I'd guessed, the predictions that Healer would shift to a high healing focus were false. I think I'm dealing damage more than ever, particularly with Holy being so spammable and DoT's being much easier to maintain. But there's still things to heal. Things will always hit the fan at some point in random groups and it's up to you to react. Your job is still a healer, it's just you have things to do when your party isn't in danger and if you want to be a good player you should utilize them.

[Niadissa]

I've said it before, and I'll likely say it many many times again.

You can play how you want to, all you want when you are by yourself. But the following holds true when playing in a party, every time, for every single class.

Your $12.99 says you can play the game how you want, but the rest of your group's $38.97 (light party), or $90.93 (full party), or $298.77 (24-man raids), says learn how to play your class.

In conclusion, to everyone who says that Healers shouldn't DPS at all, by making that stance you are saying that you are more important than the group, that your needs come first.

[CazzT]

As a tank I am there to generate threat and DPS. As a healer I am there to heal and DPS. As a DPS I am there to DPS and to make sure not to make the healers life any harder.

A Tank is there to hold threat. Period. Damage is a byproduct.
A Healer is there to Heal. DPS is nice when it happens, but is not a requirement of the role.
DPS is there to DPS. Period. If they heal to help out, great, if they peel adds off the healer, great. But neither are required as those are not requirements of the DPS role.

The problem is people have this mentality that DPS is part of the Healer role. It is not.