If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[Melorie]

When you go into a DR with random players you accept that you’ll get players of all skill levels and mentalities. Your only expectation should be being able to beat the content within the time limit. Anything beyond that and you should be forming your own party before hand.

True. But you should also expect that you'll go with random players that might also want you to bring the best of your job to the table. Those players shouldn't be rude and can't control you, of course, you might just as well ignore and move on. But even trust NPCs DPS. It's not surprising that players would expect something similar.

[Connor]

Bit late to the party, but I think that healer DPS should be seen as more of a ‘bonus’ than a ‘requirement’. It’s good to have, but you can still get by without it (excluding min ilvl savage etc obviously).

As a Scholar I don’t have any issue with dealing damage while healing (mostly because of how the class is designed), but I can totally understand why people wouldn’t. I think that we should see much more healers if this pressure didn’t exist.

I also still think they need to add some buff spells to healer role actions. Whether it’s damage buffs, or a Protect like spell that reduces damage taken for a short duration (10s), I think giving healers a way to contribute to the fight other than dealing dealing would make the healer DPS debate much less of an issue. Something that lets healers “always be casting”, even if they aren’t casting attack spells

[Cylla]

Yet no one said you should prioritize DPS, just that it's very clear that there is room for DPS while healing and if you play as a healer you know that.

You think that people should stand waiting for others to get hit because you can't force someone to DPS? Yeah, no. I won't do that with my teammates. If you want to keep doing nothing - because it is a FACT that this is what you'll end up doing in a lot of content, even new content, fine. But it's not surprising that people would find this stance of you very lazy. If you want to help the party you'll do your best, and in FFXIV, do your best as a healer is not using interesting buffs, shields, debuffs on your downtime because we don't have it - it is DPSing, like it or not.



I doubt it. After all, you would be stand by without doing nothing for minutes in at least any content that's not recent.
If you're busy healing, it is quite clear. If you don't have MP, people can also see that. There will be always rude and arrogant people on DF, that doesn't justify supporting stupid ideas such as "lock dps buttons" unless you want to watch netflix while playing.

Hints I said, "big if". We know it not going to happen. My point is, people need to chill and stop bullying healers with their ideal of what a healer SHOULD be doing and let the healer do what they are SUPPOSE to be doing.
Like I said, I don't support a healer standing around not doing anything, but bullying a healer to dps is just as uncalled for.

There probably more to the OP story that we don't know, but I'm not going to dismiss that this kind of thing hasn't or is happening either. While I've been lucky and haven't had anyone whine or complain, it not to say someone else isn't getting the opposite somewhere else.

[Vercinotrix]

From reading since my last post, it seems both sides of the camp are imagining their most ideal hated scenario and talking passed one another with that in mind. I get why a lot of you guys are super heated/passionate. Maybe I'm wrong and people aren't, but that's what I'm gathering since a lot of posts seem to be going off the idea of an extreme situation.

I highly doubt the people being "toxic" here truly act that way in game every moment of everyday, otherwise they'd probably get a forced vacation from the game. Words can be very different than actions, and the forums are usually where people come to vent or dump some excess salt from the day.

That said.

Hey, I believe that most of the people that claim in favor of healing DPS and say that people that refuse to DPS are lazy are not including people with some sort of disability, or new people that are learning, people that are adjusting, etc, since most of healers have been through that stage of learning and adjusting. Not DPSing because you don't feel like you can and are busy enough is one thing, not DPSing because you simply don't want to even if you have room for it is another.

It's just that, if you play this game and say that you are a pure healer or healers shouldn't DPS... Well, there's something wrong, you're probably choosing to stay idle. Because it's very clear that, for the majority of the playerbase that play this for a long time and doesn't have any sort of disability, the fights of this game, for good or bad, have a lot of room for DPS. You'll probably notice that even the fights that you struggle now, the more you comfortable you are, the less you heal.

Besides, when we're in a party we can clearly see when people are trying their best to heal or are struggling with healing and when people are just there, waiting for someone to take damage. Very different things.

I assume the same thing. Honestly for me I'm nowhere near as passionate about this topic as most people, I just wanna play the game. However I don't think anyone truly likes when someone isn't doing something to help the group. Could be a weird kink they have if they do, but eh.

I've kicked people before for idling, but at the same time I've had to kick healers for literally being green dps. Ran into my fair share of WHMs that were stone fanatics. Can't say I've never thought in the heat of the moment "god I wish they'd just take dps buttons from healers".

All in all, I think people would appreciate the effort to do dps as a healer even if you're not good at it.

[Melorie]

I think giving healers a way to contribute to the fight other than dealing would make the healer DPS debate much less of an issue

This. I believe that the majority of healer players aren't DPSing because they want to be a green DPS, but honestly, it is the only way to give something to the party when you're not healing - and most of the time, you aren't. That's the way FFXIV is designed, the only way to change that is not changing the way that community view things or making DPS skills boring. You must change the gameplay, the way that battles are designed, which was what I was expecting on ShB but well, did not happen.

Hints I said, "big if". We know it not going to happen. My point is, people need to chill and stop bullying healers with their ideal of what a healer SHOULD be doing and let the healer do what they are SUPPOSE to be doing.
Like I said, I don't support a healer standing around not doing anything, but bullying a healer to dps is just as uncalled for.

Being rude is of course wrong. While I don't think that this is something that happens as much as people claim, having some idiot being arrogant to you on DF is never good, doesn't matter the reason. You can definetly ask if the healer can DPS more and they can explain why they can't (mana issues, adjusting,etc) or try to fit more DPS, both in a cordial way. But this discussion transformed into a huge "healers should ONLY heal! stop talking about healers DPSing!" which doesn't really brings anything interesting to the healer balance debate. It gets very tiring to see all those people thinking that dumbing down or even excluding the healer DPS or throwing more healing spells would fix healers or even make the class more interesting and more people trying it.

[Kelani]

excuse my ignorance, but what is a Green DPS?

[Vercinotrix]

excuse my ignorance, but what is a Green DPS?

I use it as a term for healers who literally don't heal me. Very rare occurrence, but I've gotten into a few leveling roulettes where I stagger every tank CD to stay alive and die while the white mage is throwing rocks. Guess they're staring at people now though.

[Kelani]

I use it as a term for healers who literally don't heal me. Very rare occurrence, but I've gotten into a few leveling roulettes where I stagger every tank CD to stay alive and die while the white mage is throwing rocks. Guess they're staring at people now though.

Thanks for clarifying that for me

[Jib]

WHM main here.

I do a bit of everything, dungeons, trials, ex trials, bit of Savage... Im at heart a Healer but It is true that its about being the best that you can be. Being the best you can be is contributing as much to the party needs to fulfill that objective. If you are running anything and you dont need to heal.. YES do DPS a LOT. If you are running something that needs a lot of healing then ofc concentrate more on that.

For example : I myself have the tendency to concentrate more on the healing and less on the DPS. Cleared Titania EX this weekend on party finder with pugs and I felt I could have DPSed more for example, which I will be working on that in future runs.

TLDR: Its about being as effective as you can be for the party you are in. If the party requires you to heal more, heal more, if requires you to DPS more. Its about Balance, synergy with your other healer also.

[Nobuyuki_Sanada]

I think this is such a big issue because of how punishing it is for healers to test their limits. The best healers in the game only heal enough to keep the party alive, the remaining time they spend doing as much dps as possible. You can look at dps as kind of a reward for healers playing their position well. When a tank or dps try to dps more than they should the healer is punished as they now need to spend another heal that they normally would not need to make up for that mistake, this is likely because the dps or tank messed up a mechanic or forgot a cooldown while trying to do more dps. When a healer tries to dps to much EVERYBODY DIES. This puts a lot of pressure on healers and some people just decide not to take the risk altogether. As I stated in my previous post I still believe healer dps is a requirement but give the healers some slack, they have much more responsibility by far than any other role.