If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[Cylla]

I've kicked plenty of healers for not DPSing and I will continue doing so.

If I see you idling in a fight when there's no healing required and you could deal some damage instead of sitting there, I will vote kick you the second I get the chance.

I've already had a couple of healers sit for a good 30 seconds or more idle without there was no healing needed at all and they were on max MP as well with lucid ready to be used.

People like you are the reason we lack healers in this community.

****
I've not ran into any issues of people bothering me about DPSing.
With that said though, always use your best judgement when it comes to pugs. If dps is being stupid and standing in bad, and tank taking on massive damage from large pulls = Healing comes before dpsing.
If you got the freedom to dps, do so, if only to silence the little lambs like Crystal who like to abuse the vote kick system.

[AmeliaVerves]

Love the blue ones.
Only the purple one is underwhelming.

It's a fair trade. If you have to spend the GCD for healing you would have to spend it either way, with or without the lily system being in place, but the purple lily makes up for the 'lost' Glare.

[BlitzAceRush]

I'm a healer first, I'm not fond of this whole we should DPS, not that we shouldn't I more mean the mentality, even in games where healers do just mostly if not fully heal I try to subscribe to the always be casting, be it buffs, prepping for things or in 14's case, dealing damage.

it's the mentality where I disagree, there seems to be this battle of extremes going on for some reason, you're either a tunnel visioned healer letting the world burn for your precious DPS, or a lazy good for nothing who only stands around, as I just said I do long like having so much emphasis on DPS so I'd be put into the latter category but I've never sat around doing nothing.

It's about understanding, I've had tanks who want to wall to wall and it's gone horribly I've had tanks that have done small pulls and it's also gone wrong, the key is understanding, in good parties we've spoken about why it went wrong and asked how we can adjust? 9 times out of 10 we reach an understanding and make it through.
The one time where rage or toxicity happen, you just need to move on, not everyone wants to work with everyone, some see their way as perfect nothing you can do about that.

My stance is as it has always been and unless they radically change the game, always will be, I'm a healer first, I will also prioritise healing over DPS, however if I ever judge an opening or have tools in place as to not need to heal, I will DPS, you should always strive to be doing something, to equate it to the real world, combat medics in war don't just carry weapons for self defence, for every enemy they defeat themselves, is one less enemy to wound or kill one of their own, faster things die the less your allies are hurt. ABC.

[Oscura]

This debate will literally never die as long as healer jobs are capable of dealing damage in a party setting.

All you can do is just find like-minded individuals, for better or for worse.

I personally prefer my healers DPSing, but I don't really have the time or energy to care anymore, unless it's savage content.

[Granyala]

It's a fair trade. If you have to spend the GCD for healing you would have to spend it either way, with or without the lily system being in place, but the purple lily makes up for the 'lost' Glare.

I don't fish for lilys. (By that I mean deliberately overhealing)
If I am at 3 lilys I replace the next cure with a lily skill. Otherwise they are banked in case I need access to instants while moving.

As such, the purple one basically replaces a glare cast.
Napkin math:
That would be 600 potency gained every 90 seconds or 6.666 potency per second.
Lily does around 40K right now, so that would be 440ish DPS. Not sure yet what my single target DPS is right now but it's safe to say that the lily damage contributes less than 10%. Comparable to what Assize does.

[Nedkel]

... which implies poor MP management. Even the much maligned AST primarily suffers in huge pulls, and I would attribute that more towards how weak their healing kit. Regardless, I never quoted the OP. I quoted you. Why you're even mentioning the OP when my entire response focused on your shifting of the blame onto DPS, I don't know. At this point, you're simply Strawmanning.

As for mobs themselves. I have tanked every single dungeon and mass pulled each one of them. Most hit like wet noodles if you rotate CDs properly. There are a few dangerous pulls but I'd argue Stormblood had worse.

I would rather a healer who does both. Not a difficult require considering the dungeons don't hit very hard. That being said, I'm not going to scuff at a healer trying to juggle their heals and DPS. The effort alone is all I ask. Even just a couple Holy casts until you're more comfortable is something. It's the healers who barely even look at their DPS abilities or outright refuse to touch them I take umbrage with. As stated, no healer appreciates tanks who don't pop their cooldowns properly. Well, the feeling is mutual from tanks and DPS. We also do not appreciate being expected to use everything in our arsenal while you sit and watch Netflix.

Well since we are speaking in this thread, i assumed the discussion here lies down on if healers are able to DPS today without risking too much, getting oom during duty.

Most of my wipes were caused by healers who did not healed me in time, because they were busy to dps to not be called out lazy. Mobs in dungeons could land a solid burst damage if you pull wall to wall due to the fact a lot of them autoattacks and have instant cast abilities to use against a tank.
With 5.0 changes tank got chopped a ton of deffensives from them, first and foremost protect that was 10-15% buff to deffensive stats, parry, block nerfed, several CD's gone, DRK and WAR incredible healing capabilities gone (war got part of it back at lvl 76).
Dungeons are significantly harder for me as a tank, the same dungeons i used to do before 5.0.

This means healers have to focus on healing more because we are more squishy.
If DPS are NOT doing THEIR job properly then healer has to use most of them MP in order to keep tank alive today. Exception is White mage because his aoe spell stun mobs and thus contributes to the tank deffences.

At the end of the day the numbers and facts don't lie. If a WHM can put out 7k DPS while keeping the party alive with relative ease, then they're miles above healers that don't DPS. You can argue about playstyle and comfort zones all you want, but only you can do something about it because it's literally a case of "git gud".

You are missing on one important thing.
The moment healer get a really bad dps in their party is the moment where oGCD are not enough alone to keep tank alive, and because of that he has to burn a ton of MP to heal a tank.

[cougarel]

Well in the end it comes down to the whole party ...if the tank doesn't feel the party and pulls to the wall without using proper cd and the dps not able to burn down the mobs in a good time, yes...it will be a fail and will cause the healer to mainly focus on heal without being able to breathe enough for dps .
Tbh had a couple of runs where i had to spam everything i had to keep the tank alive only in the end to get in a moment without mana , since the dps were not performing and the tank didn't ask or waited for the others to spawn , just straight run to the mobs.
So we can give bad examples back and for all day, it's a party effort in which the healer has to feel and act as it feel fit in the end, like it or not just like the other participants.
It's a mmo , you play with other people in the end.

[AmeliaVerves]

I don't fish for lilys. (By that I mean deliberately overhealing)
If I am at 3 lilys I replace the next cure with a lily skill. Otherwise they are banked in case I need access to instants while moving.

As such, the purple one basically replaces a glare cast.
Napkin math:
That would be 600 potency gained every 90 seconds or 6.666 potency per second.
Lily does around 40K right now, so that would be 440ish DPS. Not sure yet what my single target DPS is right now but it's safe to say that the lily damage contributes less than 10%. Comparable to what Assize does.

Well, first off it's not recommended doing maths with actual numbers bc they vary so much, instead you work with potencies.
That being said, I have seen Miseries crit for >75k, so if you take Crits and DH-Crits into consideration Misery can actually be a dps gain even tho you spent your lilies for overhealing.

Apart from that: never cast Cure (II) if you have a Lily except for content you don't know and you want to play it safe for progression matters. Using a Lily for movement is not always a gain! It only is if you'd actually use a whole GCD moving, otherwise move > Glare.

Obv they can't make Misery a dps gain over Glare, bc that would kinda break the whole deal, it's a trade off for having to heal anyways (since that's your main job lol), but still gaining something out of your spent GCDs. Namely 're-gaining' 3/4 Glare potency for 3 spent GCD heals.

[cougarel]

I personally prefer my healers DPSing, but I don't really have the time or energy to care anymore, unless it's savage content.

Kinda doubt we will encounter this situation there, since everyone needs to pull as much as they can in order to avoid enrage .

[Schan]

Maybe I've been lucky but I have yet to have been told off because I'm mostly healing.

Granted I'm trying to level AST and even a wet noodle can heal more than AST at the moment. I don't have any input on the other healers yet since I haven't leveled them but as someone interested in healing I do talk to my static's healers quite often on what I might be doing wrong and what their opinion on healers is so far. The gist of what I got so far is: WHM is really strong, SCH's dps is really simplified and in a way they appreciate it but miss the complexity and not having an aetherflow stack dump is simply retarded. Also you can heal Titania EX with anything BUT oGCDs and if you use an oGCD heal while everyone has been doing mehcanics right then you're bad lol

However I too am of the midset you should throw a DPS spell every now and then if everyone is safe, but as an AST I find that very difficult. 9/10 times I decide to cast Gravity the Tanks gets chunked down to 20% in 4 seconds, but then again I feel like most of the tanks I party with are made of wet paper so it's safe to say I mostly heal in dungeons. Not once has anyone told me off for just healing in a dungeon so far.

I had the most enlightning conversation with my static's tank the other day as well. I was wondering how I actually managed to DPS with him as AST (at level 73 dungeon) while with other people more often than not I blow every oGCD and they still die (he almost died once and he apologized which left me very confused). I told him it felt like the mobs have mini tank busters because I watch over their HP like a hawk for a good 5+ seconds and it's not dropping. The moment I decide "They're fine" and cast a DPS spell they get chunked down and it was frustrating me. He basically gave me a list of the mobs that hit particularly hard in that dungeon and told me on top of using cooldown he stunned those mobs. It mind blew me.