Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[Daralii]

Speaking of just a question the color of the wol soul is it the same color as was shown for his/her aether during the 60 alchemist quest. (want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting aether and souls)

It's been stated or suggested at a few points that the color of the WoL's soul/aura/aether is blue.

And is apparently distinct enough that the Amaurotines are able to recognize the fragments of him/her. Assuming they were the member of the Convocation that abdicated their seat, it definitely reframes Elidibus trying so hard to win us over.

[Rannie]

Thank you I wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting it wrong. I did thealc quest just a little before shb came out sooo now that brings to mind though

how was Hythlodaeus able to see Ardbert, I know he said he couldn't make out the shape but could see the color and then said no one else could see it. Thus implying that even Selch didnt see him or even the hint of Ardberts shade.

[Daralii]

I'm not sure if it's been touched on, but regarding something in the final dungeon:

Obviously Emet-Selch is narrating the fall of Amaurot the entire way, but while there are voiced and unvoiced text bubbles of his commentary that are labeled as his voice, there's also other messages as notification text that I don't think appear in the chat log. Is there anything to indicate what those are? The WoL's observations? Some part of the Ancient bleeding in? Crystal Mom?

[Kallera]

But, Hydaelyn is essentially still the creator of the world.
The world before the split, was a melting pot of creation magick, with a strict authoritarian civilisation that policed thought, because a wrong thought could create abominations.
Zodiark was summoned to police this further after the apocalypse, but required constant sacrifice to maintain. The Amaurotians basically had to castrate their very nature as creation mages, to an all-dominating soul vampire.

Hydaelyn sundered Zodiark and the world into 14 reflections, each diminished, but each… as much as our very own world, each with mortals, like us. These worlds, that imitate our own real world, were created by her.
Hydaelyn demands nothing for her efforts, she requires no worship, nor even knowledge of her existence, she merely requests that everyone live free.

In what twisted philosophy is Hydaelyn a villain or a threat?

At least, to anyone other than a self-aggrandizing, overly nostalgic Ascian.

10 characters

Quite the contrary, Hydaelyn no more created the world than Bahamut. Does one get to be the creator by throwing the biggest temper tantrum?

And neither did Zodiark create the world. in fact the world knew of existence and people long before it had a will of its own. Does the star need an all powerful will choosing people to fight for it? Sacrificing others for its own needs? Forcing them to obey by stripping their wills?

[dragoelete]

Thank you I wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting it wrong. I did thealc quest just a little before shb came out sooo now that brings to mind though

how was Hythlodaeus able to see Ardbert, I know he said he couldn't make out the shape but could see the color and then said no one else could see it. Thus implying that even Selch didnt see him or even the hint of Ardberts shade.

hyth said it himself

he told us emet selch made a mistake in his creation along the lines of "perhaps hythlodeus will realize the truth" which brings into question just how strong is creation magic. if it can make an essentially all knowing being even on thigs that the creator themself does not know. i have a feeling he will show up again in the story perhaps further explaining things about hyd and zod.

[Seraphor]

Quite the contrary, Hydaelyn no more created the world than Bahamut. Does one get to be the creator by throwing the biggest temper tantrum?

And neither did Zodiark create the world. in fact the world knew of existence and people long before it had a will of its own. Does the star need an all powerful will choosing people to fight for it? Sacrificing others for its own needs? Forcing them to obey by stripping their wills?

What the hell does Bahamut have to do with this?
Bahamut created nothing.

Hydaelyns actions resulted in the creation of 14 different worlds, out of the embers of one dead world.

[Kallera]

What the hell does Bahamut have to do with this?
Bahamut created nothing.

Hydaelyns actions resulted in the creation of 14 different worlds, out of the embers of one dead world.

Hydaelyn didn't create anything either.

She divided the whole that was there in a destructive act. Emet Selch described her abilities as this and the result of what happened when she used said ability on the will of the star itself. Whatever justifications or directives, she did not create, she split apart.

Shards of tge original existenxe. Parts of the whole.

[Seraphor]

Hydaelyn didn't create anything either.

She divided the whole that was there in a destructive act. Emet Selch described her abilities as this and the result of what happened when she used said ability on the will of the star itself. Whatever justifications or directives, she did not create, she split apart.

Shards of the star. Parts of the whole.

Purely semantics. If you divide a piece of A4 paper in half, you've created two A5 pieces.
Without the act of 'division' there'd be no world, now there's 14.

[FaerieAura]

In the end, Hydaelyn acts for hydaelyn’s interests, not the world. In setting about her own goals, her actions bear the result of damaging the star grieviously as well. At least that is what I got from the results of this story. In order for the people of this world to be truly free of the ruinius meddling of false deities, Hydaelyn needs to removed from its position. Even if it sounds like she is a being that has “learned the lesson”, she comes away from it still being an bad actor on the affairs of people. Roping people in with only enough so that they may get things done for her.

I don't think that's necessarily the case though. Keep in mind, everything we know right now, we've learned through the lens of a man who is tempered by Zodiark, a being who was created by a fearful and hopeless people. What do we know of primals? When created, they are influenced by the emotions of those who are doing the creating. Ga Bu created a Titan that was little more than a child throwing a temper tantrum, screaming and fighting for nothing but Ga Bu's confusion at this loss of his parents. Primals are simply a reflection of the will of the creators. My current theory - to me the only one that makes sense - is that the thirteen who stood to create Zodiark, in their fear of a world without creation magicks, created a being that would impose a will on the chaos of creation, but still allow creation magicks to continue. Their fear of a world where they no longer possessed complete control meant that they would pay whatever price this new deity deemed necessary - hence why they were willing to sacrifice, and sacrifice, and keep sacrificing in order to do it. Even their current plans require the sacrifice of all current souls to Zodiark in order to bring back a semblance of what once was, just because the Ascians are unable to let go of their fear of Oblivion. Our forebearer, the member of the conclave who decided that this plan wasn't worth the suffering it would cause their people, had to have left for a good reason. In fact, I would go so far as to say it was likely them who came up with the plan to create Hydaelyn in the first place.

Why did Zodiark need a check? All we have right now is this: he coveted power. We know, from Emet-Selch himself, that he required sacrifice. Their current plans require even more sacrifice. I think Hydaelyn wasn't created to control Zodiark, but out of the realization that the world as it was before was simply going to lead to a recurrence. The Calamity that befell the Ascians was due, in part, to their unchecked power over creation itself. And with the creation of Zodiark, there was no way to go 'back' to a time before His existence. His new Order had been imposed upon the star. So without fundamentally changing the nature of reality, there would be no future where anyone would have free will; all life would exist to serve the new order, with Zodiark controlling all of existence and all life sacrificing itself to please Him. Hydaelyn was created to break that cycle; to allow life, fundamentally altered, yes, but free - able to hear, feel, and think for itself. Hydaelyn's existence isn't to dominate or control - it is the exact opposite - to allow life to flourish without the necessity for divine intervention, and her only intervention is to choose champions who can allow that to happen. I do not see her as a sinister force, because she was created under the auspices of Hope - hope that the children of the future could live in a world where they could find some meaning for themselves, even if life is fundamentally different for them.

I came to this conclusion mostly through listening to Answers after playing Shadowbringers (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Shadowbringers), as well as listening to Tomorrow and Tomorrow. Both songs seem to be from Hydaelyn's perspective, and both seem to back this interpretation up. We are the inheritors of the Ascians' legacy, and while they want to drag our worlds back to the past, we have been and will keep taking our stars forward - to the future, to tomorrow. I think that's what Hydaelyn was created to do. Without the Ascians constantly repeating the cycle of the first Calamity - each Calamity that Eorzea has experienced has literally been caused by their unwillingness to allow their society to fade into oblivion - Hydaelyn likely would cease to exist, and she would fade into the lifestream. But as long as the Dark continues to cling to the past, the Light must needs answer. Because we can't just keep reliving the past; it'll just give our entire planet to Zodiark, and let him take control of everything. Life deserves more than that.

[Kallera]

I guess i find it a comfort that should the need arise the planet does not in fact, require a will. Especially given a certain bodysnatcher's wide eyed designs...